I believe steam loco production ended at Datong in '88. The newest JS off the line when I was there in July of '87 was something like 8101, and I think the number of the one in Boone is 8409, so they built a little over 300 more after I was there.

Re-creating 'Operation Paperclip' with steam wouldn't really accomplish much, as you'd still have to work with American companies to build anything new. You don't need Chinese folks for this, as the plans for steam still exist in most cases, if you actually have the production facilities to make the stuff, that's the majority of the problem solved right there.
And one thing people seem to forget is that after a good 20-30 years, a Chinese steam locomotive will still need the same type of work that an older US made one will need. The only difference is that there will be less wear on a few parts, assuming the US engine was in decent shape the last time it was run (either in normal service or the last restored runs)....

Using modern materials and techniques rather than copying the archaic ways of building parts and century old materials science, we can build a new version of a Stephensonian steam locomotive that looks like an old one but is more robust, reliable, durable and easier to maintain than its ancestors.

Honestly. I can't understand how anybody who knows much about the technology of steam at all even needs to ask these questions....or continue to ask them after they have been answered.

dave

The way I see it is that the hurdle to jump with a large replica $team locomotive such as a J3A Hudson is all the special cast and distinctive parts. trailing truck frame, frame – cylinders, tender truck frames, reversing gear housing, air pump casting, driver centers, smoke stack, sand dome, water heater pump housing, baker valve gear mounting casting, pilot casting, super heater manifold etc. Boilers tend to get a load of attention but to me it’s all the part$ under and on it that make the task so daunting. The exoskeletal nature of a $team locomotive doesn’t give you much wiggle room to cheat. Industrial design went into the parts as well as the finished product and so many are right there in the open on a $teamer.

Consider the Big Boy restoration. Millions will go into it and not one of the parts listed above has to be manufactured.

And you would be wrong. Funding the production of it as a one-off would be the difficult part. The rest is just metalwork which we have more than adequate capability to do.

dave

ok, time for a little bit of research on my end. Per Duncan Cotterill's site, http://www.railography.co.uk, here's the best info I can find.

The JS at Boone is the 8419. 8422 was the last engine in December 1988, and also the last engine built by Datong before steam production ceased.

Last QJ was 8001, outshopped also at the end of 1988 by Datong. No month listed, but presumably prior to the last JS batch.
Kevin

You all made good points I did say we are capable of building an new steam locomotive and build it here in the US. I was saying that the cash thing is the problem but I was saying that building the boiler somewhere else because the boiler is the heart and sole plus its the most important piece of the whole product. Its just that the Chinese stop building them so recently and we didn't built one since 1949 commercially and built the last one 1954 by the N&W. Building a 4-4-0 replica is fine but the big ones is the most changeling. We can build one and yes there aren't many boilermakers or manufactures around every corner anymore like ther use to be which is sad. I was saying are we open for splinting the work with a different country if we have to. That's probably just me planing is one thing but coming up with the cash is another. I would prefer to do the whole thing in the states than in a different country. I was just thinking about this whole topic and Is it really a bad thing to get the extra professional help from anywhere in and outside the country? I'm sorry if I offended anybody

PS I'M not Chinese

All you need is determination and plenty of cash and you could build anything your heart desires. Seriously, modern design and fabrication make it easier than ever. Yes, you might substitute welded for cast frames, but that actually solves problems and makes manufacture easier with limited resources.

Start with the design and prints. This is something that couple be completed by a number of qualified people around the world, using Solidworks or a similar product as there's thousands of parts that need to be created. CNC machining will allow many parts to be built without the need for castings, etc. You only limited by your imagination and the cash you can raise to build it.

The problem is its ignorant to the people that have worked hard to maintain the knowledge of steam locomotive engineering, overhaul and operations. We don't have a shortage of knowledge as Kelly has very politely explained.

We don't have hundreds of steam locomotive shops because there is no need for them anymore, not because we don't know what we are doing here in the US. Despite what you m may think there are still shops in the US that build boilers, if there were not we wouldn't the American Society of Mechanical Engineering wouldn't have codes for boiler construction. We still build boilers for power plants and other proposes. When former Southern Railway 401 needed a new boiler nobody needed to go over seas.

The 401 runs today with a new boiler as seen in this video, living proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D02kJfqlxM

Don't tell the people at Continental Engineering and Fabrication in St. Louis, who built the all-new boiler for Southern 401 at Monticello. Also, don't tell the folks down at the Texas State RR, who have put all-new boilers on a 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0........

I think you are failing to see the point clearly articulated by most who have replied to your thread. The problem isn't lack of expertise. The problem isn't a lack of places to construct components. The problem isn't a lack of know-how. The problem is a lack of a solid business plan and funding, neither of which can be sourced from Germany, China or elsewhere.

"The problem is a lack of a solid business plan and funding, neither of which can be sourced from Germany, China or elsewhere."

A great statement, David.

Regarding business plans, the preservation industry/hobby is plagued by a lack of accurate cost estimating. And beyond that, many organizations seem to be willing to believe the government 1% cost of living adjustment that was fabricated to keep social security from crashing. The actual cost to business is increasing at about 9% a year, confirmed by many business owners I talk with, and supported by the pre-1980s cost of living calculations that are published by several sources. Those old calculation methods take into account some of the cost of fuel and materials that were discarded in later formulas.

Cost estimators in the locomotive rebuilding industry presently are using figures from 15% to 20% for their year-over-year cost escalator, guessing that this is going to get even worse since China is no longer buying our debt and we are printing 1/3 of the government operating cost each year.

Meaning that projects that are going to take ten years for fund raising and construction are going to end up being vastly more expensive than most preservation organizations think they are going to cost when they hatch their project. A $500,000 project becomes about a $1.2 million project in 10 years with 10% annual inflation rate.

Handing donations to organizations that do not properly cost estimate and plan for this is just like flushing your money down the toilet. They have no chance that they are going to complete their project on time and on cost target. If the real inflation rate has not been included in their planning the cost of the project is going to steadily outgrow the donations, which are going to decline as the donors see the project has less and less chance of completion. Note the progress of a certain streamlined train in New England.

Yet there seems to be very little concern about the effect of inflation on projects among the preservation groups or the national organizations.

PC

I think that the CNW 1385 project at Mid Continent Railway Museum is going to be the next benchmark in the completely rebuild a steam locomotive with a new boiler projects.

-Hudson

David and PCook so corect regarding funding.

No doubt funding is the hurdle not ability to make. I spoke of the appliances and parts to emphasize the complexity of a large mainline US $team locomotive. Consider this folks the J3A’s cost the NYC in the neighborhood of 200K in 1938. If all the manufacturing infrastructure were transported to today the cost would be $3,317,957 (using a CPI calculator). Further the CPI doesn’t give you a feel for the added regulatory shackles that exist today relative to industrial manufacturing. Say the modern regulatory and tax environment adds 15% more to that then the price goes north to $3,815,650, again assuming you’ve transported Alco of 1938 to 2014*. From a number like this you can begin to see just how expensive it would be to construct a large mainline locomotive from scratch. Some costs you’d never see rolling down the right of way are engineering/design, testing and certification, and finally a massive amount of custom fabrication. One $team locomotive carrying all the overhead that used to be spread over mass produced industrial goods. Someone mentioned an aircraft carrier along the way and it’s probably a good analogy on this subject. The only “How?” is funding it. When the funding goes to the stratosphere, “Why?” becomes a really valid question.

*technical advances available today would radically alter just exactly how that thing would be designed/built many things would be better and some less costly but it’s still a custom machine.

I wasn't too far wrong about the JS's for shooting from the hip, but I had no idea that Datong went back and built more QJ's towards the end of steam production. Thanks for the correction.

That was the last MASS PRODUCED locomotive. SY Class locomotives remained in limited production until 1999

http://www.railography.co.uk/info/cn_steam/profiles/sy.htm