I was all those things and my memories are extensive,fond and lasting. I always enjoyed the sounds of the mahogany wood paneling creeking as we'd go through the turnouts in Hoboken and the wonderful conversations overheard during the serious card games between those titans of Wall Street on all manner of topics.

The ability to enjoy a scotch&soda along with a good cigar, served by a true professional in the comfort of an a/c car in the blazing heat of summer, in an all adult, all male setting was truly wonderful and will always be remembered as such.

In today's pc correct world you'd be hard pressed to find such an ideal setting anywhere not just in a railroad setting.

Progress??? All in the eye of the beholder.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

How I wish these traditions survived.

The Jersey Shore Commuters Club of my era was still the best ride on all of NJ Transit, but it shared little with your experiences, Ross (other than the comfort of knowing no matter how crowded the train was you always had a seat, and the fun of getting to know the crew very well).

I would often catch myself drifting as we crossed the swamps, daydreaming of bar service and a less sterile environment.

I would think that a subscription service more akin to past days would still have enough of a market, but NJT would need to make quite an about-face. It wasn't a lack of ridership that made the JSCC a tough prospect for the railroad. It just seems that anything not cookie cutter is a blemish to the bureaucrats and the operational requirements for a dedicated car on a dedicated train are too much for button pushers. Sandy was a convenient out for NJT after they stabbed us by moving the car off a NY run and on to a Hoboken train (in my opinion). Of course, the official story was our single-level Comet couldn't be mixed with the then-new multilevel cars... and since all coastline trains to NY we're switching to multilevels our club car had to go on the Hoboken runs which were still single level.

In reality, the coastline trains to NY were never all switched to multilevels, and quite often our old run featured (and still features) Comet sets.

Your good thing came to end. Our version of that good thing came to an end. And now there are none left running in the NY area. Progress, eh?

Rob

Yes, Jim I was by far the youngest member and probably the sole non " blue blood" invited to join this rather exclusive group. I'm nearly certain I was the only one who never went college??

Shortly after moving to Bernardsville in 1968 I was befriended by Percy Chubb ( Chubb Insurance Co.) who lived near to my new home and it turned out was a bit of a steam fan. He had ridden several of our HICO steam trips in 1967 and we established a quick friendship. As he was a long standing member of the club he arranged for my invitation, which I of course immediately accepted.

If I recall correctly I was the first new member in the previous 7 years, and from my memory I was (at age 28) at least 25 years younger than the next youngest member. I was rather used to being the "kid" in the crowd as all the members of the futures exchange where I worked were in their 60's-70's.

I recall one day Webb Todd brought his young daughter Christie aboard for the ride into Hoboken and she sat next to me ( I rode in the non-smoking end mornings to read the paper in library silence, and this end was the only space females were permitted) and I remember being very impressed with her. It did not surprise me in the least when she went on to become New Jersey's Governor years later.

Great memories to be sure!!

Ross Rowland

I'm afraid I wouldn't have fit (non-smoker!), but would appreciate the style.

Mr. Rowland's comments about a masculine atmosphere where the men could "let their hair down" (something they share with women!) reminded me of a fellow with a caboose on a short length of track in his yard in a small town in Maryland. He was (and still is, as far as I know) in the construction business, so he had the advantage of having equipment and employees to move the caboose to his yard and set it there. I saw this as part of an "open house" of model railroads sponsored by a hobby shop in the area. This fellow had the model railroad and the caboose, too.

While looking over this ex-C&O steel car from 1968, I took note of the additional features added to the car, which was otherwise very intact. They included a TV, radio, wired lights, a small refrigerator, and of course the still functioning oil stove. One thing was missing--a telephone. I asked the owner about that.

He replied, "One of the reasons I got this caboose was to have a place where I could get away from my wife!"

I mentioned this story, much as you see it here, to another friend in West Virginia. This second fellow is a writer, an intellectual, and strong rail enthusiast, big fan of the B&O and the Washington, DC streetcar system, and has edited magazines, written books, and so on. He has been collecting books for over 50 years on all sorts of subjects ranging from ancient Egyptian history to Winston Churchill material to military history and all sorts of other things; I think he said he has something like 30,000 books. He actually built a library to hold them all that is bigger than his house!

Anyway, I told him about the fellow across the river with the caboose, and his reply was, "Why, D----, every married man needs a place like that. Why do you think I built this library?"

And yes, he likes to lounge in a robe, smoking cigars and drinking a bit of whisky surrounded by nice woodwork in that library.

Hey, who needs a "man cave?" Men!!

Yes, and you know one must feel somewhat sorry for those of the male gender who evidently have difficulty understanding what this is all about.

Put another way, there are some gems misplaced into that dust bin of history !!!

IMHO-Ross Rowland

Y'all DO understand, of course, that even if the actual "Commuter Clubs" were told to cover absolutely 100% of their costs, including acquisition of the cars, all maintenance, and then charged the full additional cost of attaching these cars to the trains (and there's no way in heck such an arrangement would actually cost the taxpayers nothing), it will still be perceived as "state tax dollars supporting the fat cats of 'the one percent'", and that it would eventually be a public relations quandary for NJ Transit. I can certainly see why, even if a billionaire were to buy a completely modern "private car" built new in one of the former ACES cars in New Jersey and offer NJ Transit a profitable payment to attach it to a certain train each morning and night, they'd be not only reluctant to do so, but hostile to the proposition.

Commuter trains and mass transit in the 21st century have become, in a sense, the "great democratizer" of public life, where the unemployed, maids, carpenters, and housewives get to rub shoulders with the "Limousine Lot" and "fat cats" of business and government. If you want to tell a great deal about a person, just ask him/her about his/her willingness to "commingle" with the "common folk" on a bus, trolley, train, or plane. Of course, the reality is that "Amtrak's biggest supporter Joe Biden" most likely wouldn't be caught dead riding an ordinary MARC or SEPTA commuter train with the "riff-raff," and bar and food services have been identified as major money losers for Amtrak, so.....

Is my math right, was this car in service until 1984 when the rest of the old DL&W MU fleet was retired?

The only commuter club still in operation that I know of is the one in Chicago on Metra's UP North line, the former C&NW line out of North Western Station/Olgive Transportation Center. It uses a former C&NW lounge car, and is the sole single level car in the METRA fleet. There was a good article about it a few years ago in First & Fastest.

I never understand the bureaucratic mindset that blocks these groups today. If a group is willing to pay for the priviledge, why not?

With regard to NYC area commuter clubs. I know the New Haven had them, as well as the railroads on the Jersey side of the Hudson (PRR, CNJ, D&LW). What about the New York Central or the Long Island? Did they have them as well?

For better or worse, these cars do represent a different era, especially in terms of dress and decorum. A few years ago, I rode the Acela from Washington to New York and had the dishonor of having a senator from New York on the train. I could hear half of every one of his cell phone calls for the entire trip. Blech.

I was at a legal conference here a few months ago, and noticed the guy next to me was wearing cargo pants, shoes without socks and an untucked shirt. I then realized, by his name time, he was a judge. Yikes! I was, of course, in a suit, white shirt, rep stripe tie.

Yes, they were.
As for the judge, just like a priest, that's what they wear under their formal robe or cassock.

I wouldn't call the JSCC membership during my era a group of fat cats. We had a wide mix of folks. Some of us were... believe it or not... railfans. It was a fairly affordable luxury. Of course, to anyone who wanted to sit in our car and wasn't allowed, we probably looked like the wolves of Wall Street.

BTW one reason why the JSCC car ran as long as it did is mired deep in railroad industry connections. Those who know the players know why. I'm happy to discuss over a beer, but not online.

It seems to me extra-fare services would be a nice way to relieve some of the tax payer burden, but I don't see it happening...

Rob

Right there's your problem.

When you have a "special" operation, specifically segregating passengers on a privilege and, dare I say, sexist basis, that can't be advertised publicly, and you can't even publicly discuss how and why it ran DECADES after the fact......... then it looks, smells, and sounds like exactly what it is: Cronyism, corruption, and class segregation. This is part and parcel of what Occupy Wall Street/Whatever was supposedly protesting (well, that and a myriad of a mishmash of other supposed grievances).

I'm as libertarian as they come, but you CANNOT, in the 21st century, get a public agency like this involved in such an operation that gives such an outward appearance of "segregation" and "classism." About the only counter-argument to this would be to claim that anyone else that wanted to get a private car and pay for its addition to any NJT train for the additional expenses be welcomed, just like (presumably) anyone that wanted to charter a special Amtrak or commuter agency train under prevailing conditions and restrictions, or get a PV added to an Amtrak train, be allowed to do so.

Amtrak toyed with this stuff for a while, with a private lounge car regularly assigned to the Pennsylvanian. The difference was that, just like sleeper space, anyone who wanted to pay the extra fare could ride. You'll notice that this experiment has yet to be repeated, unless you count the Pullman Rail Journeys experiment on the City of New Orleans route....

You are correct about Amtrak long haul, yet first class on the Acela seems to work (and the service is worth the price in my book though I have only experienced it by trading in "miles"). Business class on Amtrak regionals seems to sell well, too. VIA seems to do well with their highest class of service (try to book a room in a Park car on the Canadian even in the off season).

Airlines still offer multiple classes of service though what constitutes first or business class varies a lot, not just from airline to airline, but within the same airline (the first class cabin in a United 737-200 may be quite different than first in a United 737-900, for example). Someone sees the value and fills those seats (though I assume many of them are trading in miles, too). I am guilty of paying for "extra leg room" upgrades even on business trips when that "luxury" is not usually reimbursed.

Rob

Long Island Private Commuter Clubs:

LIRR club cars #828 South Shore (3rd) and Smithtown: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/earlier_club_cars.html

LIRR club cars #2001 Syosset (1st), #2002 Oyster Bay, #2003 South Shore, and #2004 Locust Valley: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/page7.html

Long Island First Class Parlors and Sleepers:

Heavyweight Parlor Cars: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/page3.html

Lightweight Parlor Cars: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/page1.html

MP72T Parlor Cars: http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/lirr/page5.html

There certainly is, and that's for the train to cost the taxpayers less than nothing.


And that part I agree with, I think it would be infeasible for a public agency to do that because of perceived socialism.

Now on the other hand if we had the Euro system, then NJ Transit would be obliged to haul cars for all comers, and, my friends, is actual socialism. Oh, the irony.

There was once a social travel club in metro Detroit called the "Nomads". They owned their own 727, and flew once or twice a week to this or that vacation location. You had to pay to be a member and pay for trips too, but it was well within the means of the middle class, though of course it would be a commitment. It fell apart due to 9/11, the economy and the looming need to replace the flying clubhouse capable of the tricks that brought value to their members like direct flights to short, hot, high fields. Anyway, the Nomads business model makes a lot of sense for a club car.


We have the same thing out here. You're describing the bridge-and-tunnel crowd. There's also a bloc of well-to-do who live in the urban core, commigling with the artistes and homeless people on Muni. They don't bat an eye at it.

New York Central did have a Commuter Club car that ran in MU trains with the cars built in 1950. An Urban Legend has it that the members tried to pay for a replacement M series car, but the transit agency refused on the grounds that "General Electric would never build a 1 of a kind car, even as an add on to a multi-car order". Some General Electric corporate executives were members of the Commuter Club. Next excuse, "The politicians would never allow it, and your members are only businessmen!"

My argument is that if the actual additional cumulative costs of applying another car routinely to a train--the extra fuel/electricity burned, the use of the track, additional car to inspect and service, etc., plus the "service fee" for doing this--were assessed, the cars would be prohibitively expensive to run. In days of yore, railroads actually fell for the line of "you're running the train anyway; just couple my car to the back and I'll pay you $500." In the long run, this is akin to the old legendary yarn of the guy who argued against the increase of haulage fees on the milk train, made every argument that since the train ran anyway, it shouldn't cost him anything, and even said that since the salt brine that leaks from his coolers killed the weeds along the track, he "should be reimbursed for providing a service to the railroad".

Amtrak of late has been hitting PV operators with fees left and right for providing services to them; while PV owners claim they're being milked dry, I've heard the argument from Amtrak guys that they're simply trying to assign actual incremental costs as a share of the total burden, not just an extra fee. I'm not in a position to tell who's really telling the truth on that one.