Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:44 am

Summing Up This Thread (So Far):

All subtotals include recently scrapped cars and cars with unknown current statuses that were assigned line item numbers within this thread.

Subtotals by Configuration:

16S: 1
14S: 9
14SB: 1
12RM-1SB-4DB: 1
12S-2DB: 2 (WHITE-Series)
12S-1C-1DR: 3
12S-1DR: 65
10S-4DXRM: 3
10S-3DB: 4
10S-2DB-1C: 2
10S-2DR: 9
10S-1DR-2C: 18
10S-1DR-2DB: 1
10S-1C-2DB: 1
10S-1C-1DR: 5
10S-(buffet)-(solarium)-lounge-(observation): 25
8S-5DB: 4 (CLOVER-Series)
8S-4DB: 2 (EMERALD-Series)
8S-1DR-3DB: 3 (TOWER-Series)
8S-1DR-2C: 5
8S-buffet-(solarium)-lounge-observation: 13
7C-2DR: 3
6S-6DB: 3
6C-3DR: 14
6S-1DR-2C-2DB: 1
6S-1DR-lounge: 2
6S-1C-lounge-observation: 1
6DB-buffet-lounge: 7 (DOVER-Series)
6SB-(buffet)-(solarium)-lounge-observation: 2
4SB-2C-1DR-lounge: 1
3C-2DR-(buffet)-(solarium)-lounge-observation: 9
3C-1DR-(buffet)-(solarium)-lounge-observation: 2
2C-3DB-buffet-solarium-lounge-observation: 1
2C-1DR-solarium-lounge-observation: 1
1DR-1SB-buffet-lounge-observation: 2
1DR-(café)-(buffet)-parlors: 34
Baggage-buffet-(club)-lounge-(barber shop): 5
Baggage-buffet-parlor: 1
Barber shop-buffet-solarium-lounge-observation: 3
Buffet-parlor-lounges: 4
Buffet-lounge: 1
Buffet-solarium-lounge-observation: 1
(Café)-lounge-parlor: 2
Parlor: 1
Private cars: 11
Solarium-lounge-parlor: 2
Unknown: 4

Subtotals by Lot:

3787: 1
3801: 1
3812: 1
3814: 1
3847: 1
3848: 1
3860: 1
3862: 3
3865: 1
3867: 1
3880: 2
3892: 1
3893: 1
3902: 2
3912: 2
3913: 1
3942: 1
3944: 1
3948: 1
3949: 1
3951: 1
3986: 3
4014: 1
4036: 1
4049: 1
4076: 2
4101: 1
4106: 1
4159: 2
4160: 1
4202: 1
4211: 1
4216: 1
4222: 1
4239: 1
4249: 1
4250: 1
4264: 2
4265: 1
4271: 1
4296: 1
4318: 1
4351: 2
4353: 2
4366: 1
4385: 1
4412: 1
4422: 1
4443: 1
4484: 3
4490: 1
4494: 1
4503: 3
4525: 1
4528: 1
4529: 1
4531: 4
4540: 2
4574: 5
4590: 2
4591: 2
4592: 1
4611: 2
4612: 1
4624: 3
4647: 2
4648: 1
4649: 3
4690: 3
4691: 2
4698: 3
4725: 2
4728: 2
4742: 1
4761: 1
4762: 5
4763: 1
4764: 1
4770: 3
4782: 1
4801: 2
4805: 4
4816: 3
4817: 2
4833: 3
4844: 1
4845: 13
4846: 2
4862: 3
4868: 2
4885: 3
4886: 3
4887: 2
4894: 3
4899: 1
4922: 3
4923: 2
4932: 1
4943: 1
4945: 1
4961: 3
4969: 4
4970: 1
4971: 2
4974: 2
4979: 1
4996: 3
4998: 6
6012: 1
6015: 2
6022: 1
6023: 2
6031: 2
6037: 3
6038: 2
6054: 1
6055: 1
6056: 1
6065: 2
6076: 1
6077: 2
6078: 2
6087: 3
6092: 2
6124: 1
6125: 1
6126: 1
6182: 1
6183: 1
6185: 1
6205: 1
6217: 1
6220: 2
6221: 1
6246: 2
6249: 3
6261: 2
6274: 5
6275: 1
6283: 1
6284: 3
6289: 1
6290: 1
6291: 1
6300: 1
6301: 1
6323: 1
6327: 1
6349: 1
6352: 1
6356: 1
6358: 2
6360: 1
6371: 1
6373: 2
6384: 1
Unknown: 19
Built by CC&F: 1

Subtotals by Year of Construction:

1910: 8
1911: 15
1912: 11
1913: 8
1914: 9
1915: 6
1916: 5
1917: 11
1918: 6
1920: 10
1921: 6
1922: 5
1923: 13
1924: 27
1925: 38
1926: 33
1927: 20
1928: 7
1929: 27
1930: 12
Unknown: 18

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

146. Glacier (Lot #4763, Plan #3410, 1924, 12S-1DR, TCRY)--sold to SOU #2470 (1948) to LASTA

Attached please find current photographs of car #146 outside of New Orleans, La in January 2014.

Dean Levin

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

290. There is at least one heavyweight sleeper at the museum in Puebla, Mexico, but from the one photograph I found I can't make out the name--http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2668/3689817889_0ebd8c152f_o.jpg (Raul Harrison photo)--anyone know the history??

Its worth noting that this car has had one end rebuilt to an open-platform...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotografiaraul/3689817889
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vladimix/6830307540

I know this much... after checking all of my links to 8 Section sleeper cars I can say with certainty, based on the window pattern of this car, that it is a Plan 4090 8 Section - 1 Drawing Room - 3 Double Bedroom car, as are the cars linked to below, which show the same side of the car:

ACL Arsenal Tower
PULL Temple Tower
ACL West Tower
PULL Zephyr Tower

The following Plan 4090 cars ended up in service in Mexico, cars with MGRS (Mexican Government Railway System) numbers only carried them temporarily while awaiting naming and numbering into the NdeM number series (NdeM numbers and names in red purely for emphasis)...

PULL Bridge Tower, to NdeM El Duque Job [2nd] (7/13/59), to NdeM 168 Jose Vasconcelos (7/28/59)
NYC 11104, ex-PULL Conning Tower (8/17/43), exx-Coit Tower, to MGRS-82 (5/19/58), to NdeM 173 Justo Sierra (11/18/58)
NYC 11101, ex-PULL Dromedary Tower, to NdeM 171 Juan Estucia (7/4/58)
NYC 11102, ex-PULL Kilcullen Tower, to MGRS-89 (5/20/58), to NdeM 185 Manuel Jose Othon (8/19/59)
NYC 11100, ex-PULL Martello Tower, to NdeM 243 Salvador Diaz Miron[ (9/12/58)
C&O, ex-PULL Valley Forge, to NdeM 134 Dolores Hidalgo (9/50)
C&O, ex-PULL Williamsburg, to NdeM 122 Heroica Veracruz (9/50)
C&O, ex-PULL York Hall (3/17/50), exx-Yorktown, to NdeM 264 [1st] Tehuantepec (9/50)

I will do some inquiring to see if anyone knows anything about the car at the Museo Ferrocarril Puebla (Railroad Museum Puebla) and will also do some inquiries about the Pullman on the Bay Coast out of the hope of being able to identify both cars.

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:26 pm

Thanks, Dean, for the photos of Glacier!

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on the car at Puebla!

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:27 pm

Rainier Rails wrote:

240. N&W 12S-1DR owned by Bay Coast RR (Cape Charles, VA)--anyone know the history of this car??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=679644 (William Grimes photo), here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2692228 (Jonathan Ferraro photo), and here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3413817 (Marty Bernard photo)

I'm going to suggest that anything and everything of interest to this list that shows up at Cape Charles, Little Creek, or anywhere along the Bay Coast RR had its origins through the Tidewater Chapter NRHS collection that was stored for years in Cape Charles Yard in the 1980s.

In looking at the collection of the Eastern Shore Railway Museum in Parksley, Va. (north of Cape Charles), it appears that the Tidewater Chapter has sold off or donated much of its former collection. From current Google/Bing aerial views, three passenger cars and a couple vintage freight cars appear to still be in Cape Charles:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Cape+Cha ... o-94951884

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:37 pm

Thanks, ADM IV, for the info on the Bay Coast car!

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

In looking at the collection of the Eastern Shore Railway Museum in Parksley, Va. (north of Cape Charles), it appears that the Tidewater Chapter has sold off or donated much of its former collection. From current Google/Bing aerial views, three passenger cars and a couple vintage freight cars appear to still be in Cape Charles:

Going to the street view it shows that the cars shown at Cape Charles are the Bay Coast Rwy. cars painted in two-tone blue and white (including the 12-1 sleeper) as well as the business car Philadelphia Star owned by the owner of the line.

None of the cars at the Eastern Shore Rwy. Museum are cars that have been previously photographed at Cape Charles. The two links below will take you to the Museum's listings at the Passenger Car Photo Index as well as cars that were owned by the Tidewater Chapter. They are two different collections of cars.

Eastern Shore Rwy. Museum
Tidewater Chapter, N.R.H.S. cars

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:13 pm

A Correction:

Subtotals by Year of Construction:

1927: 21 cars, not 20, as I forgot to include RBMN #2 Hickory Run (formerly named Lehigh Gorge), which is line item no. 72 back on page #3. Does anybody know the identity/history of this car?? I forgot to include it in the "Mystery Cars" post above.

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

jmlaboda · Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Quote:

1927: 21 cars, not 20, as I forgot to include RBMN #2 Hickory Run (formerly named Lehigh Gorge), which is line item no. 72 back on page #3. Does anybody know the identity/history of this car?? I forgot to include it in the "Mystery Cars" post above.

These photo sshows that the car has Ice AC which makes it one of only four cars that were acquired by PRR (PRR preferring Ice AC over the other types)...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1154686
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3667211

All four of these cars lasted until the mid-60s in lease to Pullman. Names and numbers as well as the dates when they were withdrawn from Pullman lease were PRR 8575 Craigie House (3/65), PRR 8576 Emlen House (4/64), PRR 8577 Octagon House (4/67) and PRR 8578 Royall House (3/65).

There were 13 cars total built between the Plans 3997 and 3997a and according to the Pullman HW Sleeper book all went to scrap, which apparently is not true since one still remains with us.

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

Current photographs ( January 2014 ) of Glen Pond, outside New Orleans La

Dean Levin

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

256. Vicker (Lot #3880, Plan #3411, 1911/32, 10S-3DB, PRR/SOU, ex-William Lewis Sharkey, nee-Binstead)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to L&N converted to baggage-dormitory #1652 and leased to Atomic Energy Commission (1961) to MofW to FAM to CSX to West Florida RR Museum--

Current photographs provided ( January 2014 ) for those that are interested

Dean Levin

PLATFORMCAR · **Joined:** Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:22 pm **Posts:** 429

256. Vicker (Lot #3880, Plan #3411, 1911/32, 10S-3DB, PRR/SOU, ex-William Lewis Sharkey, nee-Binstead)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to L&N converted to baggage-dormitory #1652 and leased to Atomic Energy Commission (1961) to MofW to FAM to CSX to West Florida RR Museum--

a little history... note they scrapped a car in 2011...

Dean Levin

Rainier Rails · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:17 pm

Thanks, Jerry, for the info on RBMN #2!

Thanks, Dean, for the photos of Vicker and for the info on Villa Cheer!

Line item no. 257 Villa Cheer, the other L&N baggage-dormitory acquired by West Florida RR Museum, is now noted as being scrapped.

Thanks, Dean, for the photos of Glen Pond!

This means there's another mystery that needs to be solved! Back on page #3, J3a-614 inquired as to the current location of 6-3 Glen Blair, which had been stored for years at the car shops in Brunswick, MD.

While searching for info as to the current location of Glen Blair, I came across this thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19681, which was posted by Dean in January 2006. In his opening post, Dean listed the Glen Blair as being owned by LASTA. Myster solved, and Glen Blair was listed in this thread as line item no. 131. Not apparently, as later on while I was searching for info on other cars owned by LASTA, I noticed on their passenger car page (http://lasta.org/?page_id=206), that they stated they owned the 6-3 Glen Pond, and there was no mention of Glen Blair!

Hmm...

Well, at the time I dismissed the discrepancy as a simple clerical error, assuming that there had been confusion at some point regarding the car's identity, which seemed to be confirmed by the fact that LASTA used a photo taken by Bob Coolidge in Philadelphia in 1964 (http://www.bcoolidge.com/ANG%20Pix/ANG-Pullman%20Sleepers-Glen-Pond-Glen-Blair_11_28_64.jpg), which showed both the Glen Blair and Glen Pond!!

Well, as the photos posted today by Dean confirm, LASTA does indeed own the Glen Pond!! So, the question is, does LASTA also own the Glen Blair, or does it need to be reclassified as a "Where Is It Now?" car??

Regardless, the Glen Pond now needs to be assigned a line item number:

296. Glen Pond (Lot #6182, Plan #3523L, 1928, 6C-3DR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products (1967) to LASTA

Another "Where Is It Now" Car:

Here's another car (from page #7) I forgot to add to the "Where Are They Now?" post at the end of page #13:

297. Armory Hill (Lot #6035, Plan #3961L, 1927, buf-plr-lng-obs [16 seats], GN, ex-Dolly Madison)--sold to GN (1945) to MofW to Reserve Mining Co. Parlor Car--does anybody know the current status/location of this car??--see here: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1258836 (John Hill photo)

etalcos · **Posted:** Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:57 pm

Rainier Rails wrote:

Mystery Cars:

Back on page #3 of this thread:

86. The Track 29 development in Yakima, WA, which was recently demolished, included a restaurant which utilized three heavyweight sleepers. Two of the cars were ex-UP (Pelham, line item no. 83, and Douglas Fir, line item no. 78). The third car was ex-NP, and I still haven't been able to find any info on this car's identity. Does anyone know the identity of this car?? Has anyone written down any name(s) visible on the side or taken any photos??

I may have a picture of your mystery car from Yakima -- I'll see if I can dig it up. Unfortunately this car was buried in the complex and a customary broad side shot was all but impossible to get. I can tell you that it was a solarium observation of some description -- perhaps that will help narrow the search.

ETA

etalcos · **Posted:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:19 am

PLATFORMCAR wrote:

256. Vicker (Lot #3880, Plan #3411, 1911/32, 10S-3DB, PRR/SOU, ex-William Lewis Sharkey, nee-Binstead)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold to L&N converted to baggage-dormitory #1652 and leased to Atomic Energy Commission (1961) to MofW to FAM to CSX to West Florida RR Museum--

a little history... note they scrapped a car in 2011...

Dean Levin

Well that just sucks.... I have a business associate that rode those guard cars back when they were running from Y-12 to Pan-Tex. It would have been nice to bring one back to its home territory.

On a semi related note, the "material" those cars hauled no longer goes by rail -- remember that as you're driving down the interstate...

ETA