No. There were firebox issues with the 2716. While fixable, the NS merger and focus on the 611 simply sidelined the engine. After the conclusion of the steam program, the the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society leased the 2716 and repaired the firebox before operating her on the TP&W in 1996.

Picture from the '96 trips...
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 87&nseq=10

The one and only reason the 2716 never operated past that weekend is the post-Gettysburg fallout when the FRA refused to grant an extension on the flues, and the FWRHS decided if they were going to put money in an engine, it was going to be one that they owned, which was the 765. There was a full operating schedule for 1996 with the 2716 that was cancelled, and the 2716 was returned to the Kentucky Railway Museum.

I'm not sure where the cracked frame comments started, but I must have heard it applied to half the engines that have operated in the post-steam era. To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY engine that I'm aware of with a cracked frame (and please, someone correct me if I'm wrong here!) is the Clinchfield 1 at the B&O Museum in Baltimore.
Kevin

After spending 6 months in China in the 1980s, I have a soft spot in my heart for then. One went by on a mainline every 5 minutes. If they can't pry an SL Pacific out of a museum, a QJ will make quite a nice thrash up the WM Scenic.

Wow- I guess I slept through that. I never realized the 2716 operated again after it was sidelined during the excursions on the Norfolk Southern in ~1982.

While 611 went into service about the same time, it was NKP 765 that filled in for the pre-scheduled trips for 2716. A "second restoration" had just been completed on 765 and it had been running "local" excursions on the former Wheeling and Lake Erie line that summer. 765 had just been stored in the roundhouse at Bellevue when the call came from Roanoke that N-S wanted to lease the engine. The N&W locomotive shop at Bellevue did some minor additional work to get 765 in better shape for long-distance excursions down south. The locomotive operated the rest of the summer on the former Southern system while the 611 worked excursions on the former N&W.

I also had a chance to see major steam action in China in the late '80's, when Datong was still building JS Mikes, and RM's and SL's still roamed Manchuria. Double-headed QJ's were common in many parts of the country and gave an American a hint of what it must have been like to stand line side at the height of the steam era. I also have seen what IAIS has done with their Americanized QJ. I found it to be a tasteful revision, although the one other change I would have made if it were my checkbook would have been to replace the fluted smoke deflectors with smooth-sided ones.

An SL would be too small for the grades on the WMSR, and I have a soft spot for those very American-looking Pacifics. I agree with those here who sadly lament that no tourist road can make a major decision based on what might draw the hard-core fans, which might account for 1% of their revenue, and 50% of the complaints. If Corman's estate were willing to consider a lease, and the physical plant can handle it, his QJ would make a lot of sense as a temporary stand-in for 734 (providing whatever class inspection/repairs reportedly needed aren't prohibitively expensive and time consuming). Indeed, most prospective customers for the WMSR would only care that there is a steam loco on the head-end, if they even realized that it was a true steam locomotive, and not a disguised Diesel (if I haven't heard it all, I've heard most of it).

Some other photos of the 2716 in her proper C&O garb:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 028&nseq=5

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 064&nseq=4

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 88&nseq=59

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 8&nseq=116

What's better than a steam locomotive? More steam locomotives!

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 37&nseq=87

The 2716 in action:

http://www.rail-videos.net/video/view.php?id=11143

OK, we're badly off topic here--but I have to say I have always like modern C&O steam because it was modern--and looked it. There are those who said the C&O was a glimpse of what the future might have been if steam stayed around, the Allegheny's six-wheel trailing truck being one example. I can also say I recall seeing 614 in the roundhouse at Hagerstown--and thinking that it not only looked at home with the SD-40s outside, but that it made the MARC F-unit and the WM BL2 in the house with it look old! The BL2 and the F-unit both dated to 1947, and the 614 dates to 1948, so it wasn't exactly a huge difference in time.

I guess it's that face, with the low headlight, high bell and number boards, and the oval number plate, that does it. It doesn't look like what you think a steam engine should look like, and an Allegheny, even less so. Heck, those two even date such classics as NYC Hudsons, both conventional and streamlined versions!

Speaking of Decapods, there is one that REALLY needs a home at Mid-Continent. Same basic locomotive as is at Strasburg. http://midcontinent.org/collectn/steam/wi41.html There is also a sister to the 734 there. http://midcontinent.org/collectn/steam/lsi22.html

Steve

I believe GTW 4070 also has a cracked frame.

A cracked frame isn't a show-stopper by any means. Strasburg's number #475 and even N&W 1218 had major frame cracks which were repaired during their "initial" restorations.

Classic locomotives, certainly worthy of restoration, but both still too small for the WMSR and the heavy trains on 3% grades; the Decapod, if it's as close to Strasburg's 90 as it is supposed to be, would have only 46,512 lbs of tractive effort, considerably less than what 734 puts out. It's really a light engine intended for light track (minimum rail weight is supposed to be only 65 lbs.) Now, if the road were to look at expanding southward, which I've heard it may also be considering, well, that's a river grade, and lighter power would be most appropriate there.



Two engines that I've heard had cracked frames also included C&O 490 (the streamlined 4-6-4 in Baltimore) and that Pennsy 4-8-2 in Strasburg. No doubt both would need all kinds of work to get them to run (they were both probably pretty shot when retired, especially the Pennsy engine), but can anyone confirm or correct that these locomotives also have frame issues?

Uh oh, evil thought--What about suggesting the 490 for service on the WMSR for that "southern extension?" Oh, can you imagine the anguish of the WM fans at seeing a "Yellow Belly" on their beloved "Wild Mary?"

6 pages of pure speculation, that might be a contender for the record.

Perhaps it's "nappy time" for this thread?

But before we say goodnight, allow me to plug my beloved I1sa, in Hamburg, New York, one last time!

Good choice operationally, but if it were me, I'd send your I1sa to Strasburg, where it could handle the road's freights with ease compared with what they have now, and keep that G5 company.

Best choice for WMSR that I know about, other than another heavy LS&I 2-8-0 (both of which are spoken for--33 in Jerry Jacobson's collection in Ohio, 35 in the museum at Union, Ill.), would be what started this in the first place--C&O 1309 or 1308. Plenty of power in the speed range they need it in (I think the 2-8-4s and 4-8-4s wouldn't work as well because the speeds on this line are a bit low for them), and they would fit on the table at Frostburg.

What else is out there that I don't know about that would be a candidate? My suggestions would include drivers in the 57" to 63" range (for the proper speed range), eight or ten-coupled, and tractive effort of 65,000 lbs. or better, and of course be short enough to ride the table at Frostburg.

Final comments before naptime. . .

Since I'm from west of the Mississippi, you East Coast guys will have better luck adding to what is already speculated, which have been:

1. Berks;

2. 1308 (9);

3. I1 Decapod

4. Another LS&I 2-8-0

As much as I like the novelty of a 2-6-6-2, and its ability to pull anything they could dream up within siding constraints, I think if another LS&I heavy Consolidation is available, they would pick her solely from a familiarity aspect. No two steam locomotives from even the same class are alike, but at least they would know where the issues might be, and they could match their locomotives perfectly.

I'm just bumping this up to see if there's anything new on this discussion about 1309 and Western Maryland Scenic. I saw where the business car came home, which I think is fantastic! Keep up the good work WMSR!

I just read up on this engine. I've seen her a few times in Baltimore, just read she was housed in the Peach Creek Terminal Roundhouse until 1972.
Does anyone know of any photos of her when she was still there?