That might be the case, it might be in its best mechanical condition, but that doesn't mean its in its accurate historic condition.

Remember, the B&O Museum is a museum, not an amusement park. They're very aware of this. That's why the equipment they use for their ride is not part of their collection.

That may be as much fortunate happenstance than strategic policy.

Yes, they got former MARC ex-PRR coaches and a non-B&O EMD SW8 for their out-and-back rides. They retrofitted some surplus flat cars into open cars for "Thomas duty." It's terrific that they have access to theoretically expendable non-artifact resources to "wear out."

But in the past they used one or more of the Budd RDCs, and they have used, and continue to use on occasion, collection diesels like 3802 and 7402 for those trains. They discontinued the use of the RDC, as perfect a vehicle as it is for low-volume train rides or school groups, because "The ride was just too much like a city bus!" as director Wilson told me. (And then they turned around and leased out RDC 9913 to the Fayette Central!)

Remember one last thing that bites them in the posterior hard--they can no longer claim "historic exemption" from ADA compliance. I can't guarantee this or remember specifics, but I seem to recall (from back in 1990s days with Railroad Passenger Cars, Inc.) that the B&O car designs are a little more problematic in this regard than the PRR or more modern major-builder designs (Budd, P-S, etc.).

I would make the case that the B&O Museum couldn't find in their collection right now a train of "appropriate" cars in which to offer a ride, or that the cars they do have would require massive amounts of work before routine operation, not the quick shine-up and paint jobs their current excursion fleet members got. This isn't really an indictment of the Museum per se--I could probably say the same thing about the RR Museum of Pa. were it to try and assemble a riding set, aside from the wooden cars that used to be used by the Strasburg.....

Leaving aside the very valid issue of their ownership and price (let's not discuss that today, thanks):

34,000 pounds tractive effort each versus 60,500 for 734, 77,900 for C&O 1309...... and two crews rather than one.....

An option? Sure, maybe. But a good option?

"That might be the case, it might be in its best mechanical condition, but that doesn't mean its in its accurate historic condition.

Remember, the B&O Museum is a museum, not an amusement park. They're very aware of this. That's why the equipment they use for their ride is not part of their collection.[/quote]

A museum with operable equipment hardly catagorizes it as an amusement park. And as far as ADA exemption goes, nobody has suggested fitting out the cab for people with disabilities. Refitting a coach or flatcar is another thing altogether. Sometimes I think we are grabbing at extreme cases to warrant declarations of imminent failure.

It sounds like a win-win scenario to me, and we should get behind making it work rather than discussing what's completely wrong with it. I'd like to assert the opinion that when one group enjoys promotion and success, it helps build the case for other group to at least put their ideas forward.

If I may sidetrack for a second - what ever became of CP 4-6-2 #'s 1238 and 1286?

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomo ... splay=1220

http://www.steamlocomotive.info/valbum.cfm?display=1221

Back to C&O #1309 - it's about as large an engine as you could get and still turn on the turntable. Seems a well thought out idea to me. Plus - and even more so, imagine the attraction of a weekly /daily running articulated steam engine working a grade! I think the plan, in addition to finding appropriate power for the longer trains while easing the stress on the engine is in fact, a reach by management to take what is a VERY popular local attraction and make it an international destination. A 2-6-6-2 after all is not "another 2-8-0", as impressive as the former LS&I engine is.

I also agree - short of having an engine under a roof, it ain't preserved. And seeing such a piece IN ACTION says more about preserving ALL aspects of the history of steam vs a simple display at a Museum. After all, how often have we yearned to visit a taxidermist instead of the zoo? The museum will be better served with an influx of cash to prevent deterioration of it's other pieces all the while bringing #1309 up to par years, if not decades sooner then the Museum would likely be ready to approach it.

Regarding a swap - who says #1309 is in bad shape? It's practically new. The cost and logistics of such a swap probably forbid consideration. Moving just one will be more then enough "fun".

/Mitch

For sale, with trainset as part of the package, at what is generally regarded as an inflated price for an "all or nothing" package. And that info was several years ago. Nothing, as far as I know, has changed in that time.

Interesting conversation.

Never say never.

If I recall correctly, there use to be this REALLY BIG SHAY that sat in a corner of the roundhouse at the B&O Museum.

What happened to it?

C&O Ten-wheeler #377 from their collection operated for a number of years in Ohio, so its not a completely unknown situation for the B&O Museum but in the intervening years perhaps policy may have changed.

http://steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=597

Such things happen in the UK with pieces from the National Collection.

Joshua

Stop it! Don't even suggest the great days we would have if US museums and railroads were more like their UK counterparts.

:-)

Rob

A G5 wouldn't be big enough? Does WMSR have some big plans for some really big trains in the future? When I was there on a nice sunny Sunday in July, they were running just a four car train, maybe 1/3 full. Does the current level of business require a larger engine? 734 was overkill with that train; I have ridden eight or nine car trains in the past there. I wish WMSR luck and hope that business picks up soon, but they have to have the business first to make the investment in bigger power.

Western Maryland Scenic's business is highly seasonal, with over 50% of the ridership in the fourth quarter of the year, peaking in October when every available piece of eqiupment is pressed into service. It is not unusual to see the steam engine on the front with both diesels on the rear pushing, which is 100% of the railroad's motive power, leaving no margin for breakdowns or other problems.

Alan Maples

Sure it's overkill, just as a Niagara was overkill on a single coach local in 1953. Point is this locomotive itself. It's unique, it's something most railfans want to see, it attracts the photographers, restores a more than capable piece of steam technology, and puts it to work in a region where the fuel it requires originates. For families just wanting to take junior out and see a steam locomotive, it meets the requirement. For people who will travel a long distance, it meets other requirements.
The CPR 4-6-2's are wonderful, but it's time for something completely different.

Here's an excellent simulated video of the 1309:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z9NEJCbru8

Wow! Looks like the Trainsim has advanced in leaps and bounds since I last paid any attention to it.
Nice work.

I rode the WMSR in its Allegheny Scenic days, and remember how one of those little G-5s worked its heart out on a 4-car train. Impressive working, and interesting to feel the pulse through the floor of the first car, but she was at her limit, especially on the last three miles into Frostburg. The road does need bigger power than a CP G-5.



No argument here; just give things time to work out, if they do.



A "world class" attraction might be a bit of a stretch--seems scenery is a bigger draw, as in the cases of Durango & Silverton, Cumbre & Toltec, White Pass & Yukon, Alaska Railroad, and various mountain roads in Europe, primarily Switzerland, and note that most of these roads, particularly European ones, aren't steam-hauled. But what do I know? I was surprised to find that what is in some ways a relatively pedestrian Catskill Mountain Railroad (no steam, slow running, pretty but not as spectacular as the Rockies or the Alps) gets some international traffic, too, and that it has volunteers coming from at least as far away as Northern Virginia, a drive of something like 7 1/2 hours. If the CMSR can do it, so can the WMSR.



Seeing that this simulation is set on the B&O, it reminded me that I've sometimes wondered what the Chessie System merger might have looked like had it occurred in the 1940s instead of the 1970s. This could be a good argument for leaving this 2-6-6-2 in C&O livery, which would also tie in with the C&O Canal there, too.

Either way, if this does come to pass, it will be something to see and hear!

Oh, for whistle enthusiasts, it's my understanding that the C&O used a "hooter" on its freight power that sounded a lot like those of the N&W, and that a similar stock Baldwin hooter was what was delivered on the B&O's famous EM-1 2-8-8-4s.