Regardless of the coupler type, they would have held together at least until each car reached the precipice. From that point, the momentum would have carried the leading car over the edge. So the theory that the weight of the falling cars pulled the train forward until each car went over the edge is not affected by coupler type.

I went to the website and reviewed the artifacts. I think it can be said conclusively, you have found some important and wonderful relics from a moment in history. The ornaments and cutlery that is melted, no doubt, came from the specified wreck. Link and pin couplers were carried on the flat surfaces of locomotives, tenders, and flatcars, in abundance in that era. It might well be that those you have found simply vibrated off, and then plummeted into the gorge, during regular operations.
Not trying to be a hack, but in locating this material, did you map the locations and depths, then apply cataloging to the relics? This isn't harsh criticism, since, in all probability, it would have remained otherwise un-investigated. Just wondering.

Here is a nice page on the Miller hook, compliments of Mid Continent:

http://www.midcontinent.org/rollingstoc ... erhook.htm

One important thing to note, the Miller hook relied on the spring buffer between cars to keep the hooks engaged, so false uncoupling was a real possibility. Because of this, cars equipped with Miller hooks typically also had safety chains, as are seen in the photo of the Carson & Colorado car in the link. I suspect that the typical three link chains, two per coupling, would be even less likely to part than a single link and pin coupler link as the cars misaligned. So, the type of coupler does indeed not appear to be the issue.

I am curious, is there an active rail line over this site today? I know the original peirs are under the current bridge but I can't find anything that shows what the top of the replacement bridge looks like today.
I only ask that you please don't go into any local 'ghost' legends or such. Nothing kills history faster than playing to that segment of the population who thinks everything is haunted...

I would like to thank everyone for the help and discussion on the wreck and mention of the Miller platform hook couplers used on passenger coaches at that time. I have been scrutinizing all the wreck photo's that we have and only (1) shows the erie image of a lone coach end platform with brake wheel sticking up amongst the wreckage.

After zooming in and enlarging the photo i'm somewhat sure that it had the Miller platform hook type coupler. Although you can't really see the actual coupler due to the bridge iron blocking the view of the center area there is something else that stands out i hadn't noticed before. To the right on the railing is a angled somewhat vertical handle lever sticking up above the railing with a curved mounting bracket mounted to the upright railing posts.

This lever looks identical to the one on the Mid Continent Ry. Miller hook restoration page that shows the lever with a chain attached at the bottom going over to the coupler. I'm attaching a zoomed in wreck photo of this showing the end platform and railing and handle for others to also hopefully confirm.


Lee, Yes there is a active CSX line with 4 tracks above the site on a large concrete double arched culvert type bridge with high earthen fill. It was built in 1904 and then repaired in 1938. It looks like it needs to be repaired again soon! as there are many cracks and large chunks of concrete that have been breaking off over the years. On the "Engineering Tragedy" website there are alot of old photo's of the wreck and bridges at the site over the years. This website "is not" some ghost hunter website!! One photo in peticular is a early 1900's photo postcard i submitted of the current 1904 bridge looking North showing the old early 1870's brick pumphouse on the left West bank. The brick pumphouse was a refuge for the surviving passengers pulled from the wreck to keep warm from the storm until they could be helped and moved to the top afterwards.

Today all that remains of the pumphouse is the sandstone foundation mostly burried and bricks strewn about in the underbrush. As for the old 1863-65 bridge support pier from the bridge that fell in 1876 under the current concrete east arch on the far east bank are some of the very large sandstone bridge abutment stones that are laid on top of some huge wooden timbers. In the water under the east arch are also remains of several wood pilings from the temporary wood bridge built after the wreck.

Who said the place was haunted? Sure there are the local ghost legends and websites pertaining to the wreck and everyones entitled to believe what they want. In the 10 years i've been going there i've never seen anything unusual. Most of those ghost websites have errors and very little actual facts. For me i go there in search of the past to learn more about the history of the wreck and to look for artifacts. Today you would never know the wreck even occured there.

So glad to hear that! I never said anyone had, it's just that this whole, 'ghost hunting' nonsense has gotten really insane in recent years. And some people might decide to take a turn for a 'haunted' site because it'd attract more of audience. I've worked on a few non-RR documentaries over the years and found many people will insert unrelated topics to boost potential viewership.
I find it highly offensive that there are 'ghost tours' of places like Gettysburg and the like. I just felt that a comment on my part voicing how disappointed I'd be if this catered to those ilk was worthwhile. I'm glad to hear that you won't be going down that path!

The Ashtabula disaster did have a dramatic impact on the American psyche to the extent that seems to have perhaps exceeded the actual facts of the wreck relatively speaking. Reverend Stephen Peet, in his book, tells the story with a strong sense of eeriness and foreboding as the players of the disaster were seemingly drawn to their fate, choosing to ride the train into a raging blizzard toward the ill-fated bridge.

The bridge itself acquired a sinister reputation of being jinxed. It was a new concept that used wrought iron pieces to produce a Howe truss which were typically built with timbers. The wrought iron pieces were factory made, and once on site, they were found to not fit together properly. A lot reworking was done on the fly during assembly. As I recall, it was put up once, and then taken down for more reworking.

The iron was assembled while being supported on false work. When the false work was removed the truss sagged six inches. Whatever engineering was put into the bridge, it apparently did not properly account for the tare weight of the iron in the bridge. As I understand it, the bridge was widely expected to fall down at some point.

Sounds like the Tay Bridge collapse in some regards...

The Miller coupler looked something like a HO gauge horn hook type. The couplers were held together by the hook, and by springs that pushed the side faces towards each other. To uncouple, there was a big lever on the car end that the brakeman had to horse over move a coupler. Sometimes there had to be a brakeman on each car to get the couplers far enough apart to make the cut. Those Miller uncoupling levers were unmistakable and a careful study of photos and what might have been found under the bridge over the years would be a sure sign the Miller was in use.

The Kuenzel post with the photo clearly shows the Miller uncoupling lever just right of center.
The train may have had both L&P's and Millers. Many Miller's had a slot cut across the coupler face to allow a link & pin tie up. The slot weakened any and all types of coupler knuckles, and brought some tightwad managers to the conclusion that the L&P was a better system; that is, if brakemen would be more careful in their work!

Richard, In responce to your question about the cataloging of relics/artifacts found at the Ashtabula Bridge Disaster site.

In the almost 137 years that have passed since the disaster occured none of us will ever know what has happened to alot of the arifacts that fell into the water that were later found up until the past 40 years. In reading Peets 1877 book alot of personal items were stolen from the dead and injured passengers by thieves. In the clean up day's/weeks following the wreck the LS&MS Ry. did a massive clean up removing the bridge and RR equipment debri hauling it to Collinwood yard.

Workers used rakes and shovels to pull things out of the water and alot of that at the time being personal items were used to help identify some of the dead. It's what slipped out of site that keeps people looking including myself. The Hubbard House museum in Ashtabula has some small wreck items on display, as does the Geneva library but not on display. The Conneaut RR museum has a small display case with a few items. One item that really has me shaking my head is a 1895 Adams & Westlake LS&MS tall globe double wire caged lantern that has a card saying it came from the train! They do have a few rusty somewhat unidentifiable items along with some melted items.

Some other odd things survive as mementos of the wreck. Workers salvaged some of the wood from the floor of the sleeper Palatine that had been in the water that didn't burn. Also some wood from the smashed cab of the locomotive Columbia. A local company in Ashtabula made walking canes out of the wood!


David Tobias of Ashtabula has probably the most extensive collection of disaster artifacts to this day that he has found over the past 40 years wich he has catalogued and dated, with locations ect. He also is a contributing author to the Bliss & Tragedy book with a chapter on the artifacts.

I myself have only been doing it for the past 10 years but have had a interest in the disaster since the mid 1970's when i bought the Robert Reed Train Wreck book and read about the disaster in it. The wreck site has gone thru many changes since then having several bridges erected over the river since 1876 and a few prior to the fallen built bridge in 1863-65 wich took almost 2 years to build.

The river has changed alot over the years also and done some strange things. If you compare the available picture of the site you will know what i mean. The water current moves things and bury's things in strange way's. If you hunt the place enough you'll know where to look and where not to waste time looking but things do turn up in odd places. I was there yesterday with David Tobias hunting the site for 6 hours. It wasn't a plentiful rewarding day but we alway's find something. The first hour i found a small pc. of melted silver. Then nothing for 3 hrs! Then i found a partially melted brass hinge and 3 other melted pcs. of brass.

David even uses the gold panning method and i must admit i was amazed as i shoveled buckets of river silt and small stone for him to sift thru. After a hour he had a plastic peanut butter jar with the bottom 1" filled with driplets of melted brass, lead and some other small broken brass items. It really gave me a perspective of how hot the fire was seeing how the melting brass when it hit the water had made little droplets that can still be found 137 years later.

Who knows what other people and treasure hunters have found at the site since. We know of a few people and what they have found but the rest is a mystery. The river there gives up what it wants, when it wants, and to who it wants!

Does anyone recognize what this hinged brass pc. of RR coach hardware may have been used for on old RR coaches back in the 1870's? I found this complete one at the Ashtabula bridge disaster site a few years back but have also found a few melted 1/2 pcs. of some just like it. David Tobias has also found 2 complete hinged ones and some partial 1/2 pcs. but some of the ones he found had different engravings on the brass so we presume that between the 2 of us we have artifact pcs. of the same use but from 3 different coaches on the train.

Same goes for items like brass coach window sash lift handles as we have 4 different styles found so far that were used on different cars. These peticular hinged pcs. shown below open up to almost 8 inches in the open position as shown and that is as far as they will open the way shown and they close back to back. This is one of the few artifacts found at the site that were not sure of it's exact use or what it may have come off of on the train.

Any suggestions or information as to what this hinged item might be is much appreciated!