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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
survivingworldsteam wrote:
There was one in Great Britian as well; it suffered a water tube failure that killed the crew; I believe it was converted to a conventional firebox afterwards. It looked like one of the streamlined A-4 Pacifics; but I think it was a 4-8-0; number 5000?


Oh, yes, forgot about the "Hush-Hush":

http://www.lner.info/locos/W/w1.shtml

That web page has more than you'd ever want to know about the LNER's water-tubed 4-6-4, but note that it makes NO mention of a fatality, because that never happened.


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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:45 am
Posts: 1138
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
survivingworldsteam wrote:
There was one in Great Britian as well; it suffered a water tube failure that killed the crew; I believe it was converted to a conventional firebox afterwards. It looked like one of the streamlined A-4 Pacifics; but I think it was a 4-8-0; number 5000?


Oh, yes, forgot about the "Hush-Hush":

http://www.lner.info/locos/W/w1.shtml

That web page has more than you'd ever want to know about the LNER's water-tubed 4-6-4, but note that it makes NO mention of a fatality, because that never happened.


Did I confuse that incident with another locomotive? Not sure....

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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:09 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
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Location: Inwood, W.Va.
The British experimental high-pressure water tube locomotive that suffered a severe accident and a fatality was LMS No. 6399, a modified Scott class named Fury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_6399_Fury

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... y/fury.htm

The 6399 would late be rebuilt to a Class 2 or 2A, and renumbered and renamed to No. 6170, British Legion. In this form the locomotive ran until retirement and scrapping in 1962.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Royal_ ... ish_Legion

An important point to consider is that this locomotive, along the the Canadian Pacific experimental 2-10-4 mentioned earlier and an experimental New York Central 4-8-4 that long predated the Niagaras all used an unusual triple-pressure boiler, using a closed steam circuit with distilled water at very high pressures (in the Fury, over 1,300 psi!) to transfer heat from the firebox to an intermediate pressure vessel (which itself ran at 900 psi in the Fury). The closed circuit heat transfer system was used to get away from the problems of scaling, hence its operation in a closed circuit with distilled water.

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... hptech.htm

None of these machines worked well due to the their complexity. Of particular interest is that the NYC supposedly used that 4-8-4 in hump service for years! Likely that was to keep the engine close to home, and to get some use out of the money tied up in it.

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... /USAhp.htm

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... nadaHP.htm

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... rmhigh.htm

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... P.htm#241b

Source page for all the above:

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... coloco.htm

Also from there, more on LNER 10000, the "Hush-Hush:"

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/ ... /10000.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Here is some video of the Hush Hush.
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/l-n-e ... ush-engine

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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:14 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
60000 4-10-2 at franklin institute in philadelphia is watertube.

Jawn Henry used a Water tube.


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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:11 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1341
Location: South Carolina
Many of the boiler examples given here, such as the B&O locomotives, are not true watertube boilers. They are firetube boilers with watertube fireboxes. This gets rid of the staybolted firebox with its large, flat sheets in the interest of allowing increased boiler pressure and eliminating staybolt maintenance. This seemed to retain most of the advantages of firetube boilers, including a large steam storage space and the fact that a firetube boiler is structurally self-supporting.

Some of the examples like (IIRC) the NYC 4-8-4 and the British Fury were true watertube boilers. N&W no. 2300 Jawn Henry had a true watertube boiler. Adapating a 100% watertube boiler to a locomotive brings a whole other round of complexity due to the difficulty of physically arranging and structurally supporting the boiler on a locomotive frame.

It seems like watertube boilers were thought to be the "Holy Grail" of making a truly efficient steam locomotive up through the 1950's. OTOH, Ing. L. D. Porta apparently never saw the need for watertube boilers for locomotive applications, reasoning that there were many other design improvements that could be implemented on steam locomotives to achieve great efficiency improvements without requiring them.

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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
the diesel push just blew steam development, there ya goes...


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 Post subject: Re: Water-tube boilers - Sentinel steam shunting locos
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:33 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Orange County, CA
survivingworldsteam wrote:
They were also exported to South America, India, and Sri Lanka; where some did remain steam powered to the very end. Their boilers are more like flash boilers than drum type water tube boilers used in marine and stationary service.

I wouldn't call a Sentinel boiler a flash type boiler - there's a pretty good description here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel_boiler

That class of boiler will take approx 1 hour to steam from cold, and the tubes are (or should be!) always completely covered with water. The superheater will act as something of a flash type boiler if someone were to... ahem... overfill the boiler at all. And should someone do that, you certainly feel the loss of superheat for a while! Or so I'm told.


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