The Argonaut was a secondary train that was required to stop at any station showing a flag. As I remember, it sometimes ran quite late. If this photo is at San Antonio, it is nearly 600 miles from its origin with many flag stops along its route. I wonder if the black smudge at the rear of the train is an optical illusion and not an overpass. It could show the walkway covers down at that end of the station.

If this is not San Antonio, and it is 1952, how about Tucson? Late photos show the station there is too far from the track, but maybe the close-in track had been removed by then. That roof line on the left matches Tucson.

The key to identification of the station is the curved-top light poles on the left. They're pretty distinctive. If someone could find then in a period photo, that would cinch an ID.

Another fly in the ointment is that fact the 1952 was a bad year for flooding, snowstorms, and even earthquakes in the west. The Argonaut could be on a re-routed trip in this image.

your other time clues are the people themselves and the clothes style.
And the engine and equipment. I couldnt place this pic in the fifties, it looks closer to wartime or maybe just after '45.
What is the build date for this engine?

The GS-1's were delivered to SP and the T&NO in 1930. Its has to be late 40's due to the lettering on the tender. It is the large block SOUTHERN PACIFIC as opposed to the small SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES lettering. SP switched styles in 1946 or 1948. If as you say its not 1952 then I think it has to be San Antonio due to the fact that it is a T&NO engine and would not have ventured west of El Paso.

~Ricky

HI All

Maybe this little bit of information would be of help , the train is on the Coast Division of the Southern Pacific , on the Monterey Line according to my Official Guide. Note Trains # 5 & 6 . Pat

Look at the date, February 8th, 1893.

The engine in the photograph was delivered new in 1930. By that time trains #5 and #6 were assigned to the Argonaut. Odd numbers were westbound, and even numbers were eastbound.

The engine # is 707 making it a Texas & New Orleans engine as opposed to a Pacific Lines engine which were the 4400 series.

Nice try but its out of context. Thanks for the effort though!

~Ricky

the background overpass isnt a smudge.

http://www.saculturaltours.com/spot.php?t=3&s=387&p=4

I went zooming in on the map. The train may be westbound, but at this point its aimed southward. There is a major auto autery just to the north of the station.
Commerce BLVD.

Many fingers are pointing at San Antonio and the case is stronger this is where its at. Sunset Depot.

707 was built as a Pacific Lines Locomotive and transfered to the T&L side latter. After 52 it was transfered back to the Pacific Lines side.

Robby

At present there is no overpass, just a regular street crossing, according to satelite imagery. Every passenger is walking forward, and the station crew is looking backward, which suggests that the train is still moving, just coming in, probably late. Train crew members are looking out of windows and vestibules. There are no shadows because it's right after sunrise on a fall/winter day and the clouds haven't burned off yet. The dark blur is the track shed (s) down by the front of the station. As I stated earlier, the Argonaut used to stop pretty far down from the lobby.

Robby, you are right. I've already stated that. According to the rosters after being transferred to the Pacific Lines they stayed in T&NO numbers which were the 700 series for GS-1's and were assigned to the Rio Grande Division which was Phoenix to El Paso. By 1953 they were renumbered into the 4400 series which was the all the GS's on the Pacific Lines. That means that it could have visited Phoenix as #707 during 1952.

I agree with Tim and say this is San Antonio and the Argonaut is very late. Being that it stopped at every station from New Orleans to LA that is very likely. Phoenix does not have highway overpasses instead they have underpasses where the railroad goes over top the road. Also, unless there was a serious problem the Argonaut did NOT normally go to Phoenix.

~Ricky

David Coscia from the Southern Pacific Historical Society believes the photo was taken in at Phoenix. Which means it would have to be taken 1952. So the Argonaut had to have been rerouted.

Given the lack of covers it can't be San Antonio. On the O Gauge Railroading forum someone posted and aerial view of the depot showing the covers. Here is the link to thier discussion about the photo

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=63160042&f=46660482&m=3882963127&r=2652973227#2652973227

Thanks everyone for your help in solving the mystery!

~Ricky

The link to the overhead photo of Sunset Station in San Antonio does seem to suggest that the Argonaut is not at San Antonio. However, every photo I've seen of Phoenix, including old postcard views, shows only two tracks in front of the station. If you look carefully at the Argonaut photo in question, there are five.

Someone on the OGR Forum pointed me to this site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Station_(Phoenix,_Arizona)

It shows Phoenix had 5 thru tracks and an east and west stub ended house track. I think that in the pic that is the westside house track closest to the station. Looks to me that there might even be a car on it, or on the eastside house track.

Still not sure what that is in the background though..... a bridge or a building?

~Ricky

http://www.historicaerials.com/

I selected the 1958 and threw this in

phoenix arizona 401 South 4th Avenue

you can zoom in with the mousewheel

it seems like the SP kinda runs thru a pit like thru phoenix with streets crossings over regularly.

The background has to be a street bridge overpass.

I do not see an overpass in that aerial view. Those are all grade crossings east of the depot. I can see the rails in the pavement. Also, the tracks veer to the left so my guess is that it is NOT an overpass but buildings off in the distance.

Looking at present day google maps there are no overpasses visible today to the east of the depot and there is no evidence of a pit that I can make out.

~Ricky