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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1202
Location: Leicester, MA.
davew833 wrote:
Perhaps the bigger tragedy is that six of the 15 ex-MBTA "F10's" went directly to Naporano to scrap in about 1995 when MBTA sold off all their F-units. At least these two lasted a while longer.

Yah, but there's still plenty to be seen

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:49 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: Chicago USA
What did ICG put on their (re)builder's plates, F10 or FP10? (I don't recall if they said Paducah-bilt before VMV took over.) I'm willing to defer to them on what the model designation should be.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:08 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
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Location: Leicester, MA.
filmteknik wrote:
What did ICG put on their (re)builder's plates, F10 or FP10? (I don't recall if they said Paducah-bilt before VMV took over.) I'm willing to defer to them on what the model designation should be.

Steve

I'm not sure. I've always known these units as FP10s. FYI, looks like one is heading to Saratoga-North Creek (along with a D&H painted GE) to serve as placeholder power until the BL2s and E8 are ready. Chances are the plates on that F-unit would have something to confirm...

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:52 pm 
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Posts: 1138
Location: Beaumont, Texas
David Dewey wrote:
Yes, to us it is tragic to see such historic pieces cut up, BUT railroad preservation is miles ahead of Marine preservation. As I write this the newest all steam paddlewheel overnight steamboat is being cut up for scrap. This American vessel, the Mississippi Queen was sold to a Hong-Kong dealer, who refused good offers from folks who wanted to restore her to operation because he could get more money as scrap. He has no understanding of our history, just a quick way to make money--and he was helped by the previous owner who apparently did not want to see anyone else operate the steamboats successfully since they failed at it.
There are other F units out there, there is no other boat like this ANYWHERE!!
Yes, I probably sound a bit bitter--it is so frustrating to see what the public and corporations consider important, or worthy of their interest. Another marine icon, Admiral Dewey's flagship, the Olympia, while in great restored condition, needs major hull repair costing about $5 million or it will be scuttled to become a divers' attraction. They can't seem to get public interest in raising this amount to save a ship as significant to US history as Old Ironsides--but Sacramento, CA can raise over $5 million in less than two weeks too keep a BASKETBALL team in town!!
It doesn't look good for historic preservation.
Steamcerely,
David Dewey (yes, a cousin of Admiral Dewey)


I feel your pain. Updating my Surviving World Steamships database has become something of a death watch; while there are occasional new discoveries, most of the updates are about this ship or that ship going to Alang, being sunk as an artifical reef or even as a target in live firing exercises. Very depressing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:17 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1202
Location: Leicester, MA.
survivingworldsteam wrote:
David Dewey wrote:
Yes, to us it is tragic to see such historic pieces cut up, BUT railroad preservation is miles ahead of Marine preservation. As I write this the newest all steam paddlewheel overnight steamboat is being cut up for scrap. This American vessel, the Mississippi Queen was sold to a Hong-Kong dealer, who refused good offers from folks who wanted to restore her to operation because he could get more money as scrap. He has no understanding of our history, just a quick way to make money--and he was helped by the previous owner who apparently did not want to see anyone else operate the steamboats successfully since they failed at it.
There are other F units out there, there is no other boat like this ANYWHERE!!
Yes, I probably sound a bit bitter--it is so frustrating to see what the public and corporations consider important, or worthy of their interest. Another marine icon, Admiral Dewey's flagship, the Olympia, while in great restored condition, needs major hull repair costing about $5 million or it will be scuttled to become a divers' attraction. They can't seem to get public interest in raising this amount to save a ship as significant to US history as Old Ironsides--but Sacramento, CA can raise over $5 million in less than two weeks too keep a BASKETBALL team in town!!
It doesn't look good for historic preservation.
Steamcerely,
David Dewey (yes, a cousin of Admiral Dewey)


I feel your pain. Updating my Surviving World Steamships database has become something of a death watch; while there are occasional new discoveries, most of the updates are about this ship or that ship going to Alang, being sunk as an artifical reef or even as a target in live firing exercises. Very depressing.


And all we need to do now is show up the british in preservation endeavors...

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:39 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: Chicago USA
Has anyone determined which Louisiana or Idaho FP10's these were and which, if any, survive? And likewise of the entire group of ex-MBTA units that didn't go immediately to scrap?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
daylight4449 wrote:
And all we need to do now is show up the british in preservation endeavors...


Not........... even......... REMOTELY...... possible.

In Britain, you seemingly can't throw a stone without it landing on or hitting a building, battlefield, graveyard, site of an atrocity, or other "historic" thing of note. It may get preserved in amber, rebuilt, or knocked down or paved over, but they at least know the history, if not always respect it.

Folks in the United States, by comparison, have the historic awareness of tree slugs or cicadas. We have a shorter corporate and cultural history, and have chosen to disregard or toss aside much/most of the history that was here before, say, 1620, 1607, or 1585.

The British also have this annoying habit--and they'll freely admit it, with shows like "Antiques Roadshow", which they started--of being collectors and clutter hounds. Americans, despite their own versions of "AR" and nostalgia, lean towards the "new is better" mentality.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:51 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 1182
In the city of Shrewsbury, in the West Country not far from the Welsh border, they have even preserved a steam sewage pumping engine, which is open for public viewing once a week.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:48 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
The units were 1105 and 1108- it shows in the 2nd video.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:09 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1202
Location: Leicester, MA.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
daylight4449 wrote:
And all we need to do now is show up the british in preservation endeavors...


Not........... even......... REMOTELY...... possible.

In Britain, you seemingly can't throw a stone without it landing on or hitting a building, battlefield, graveyard, site of an atrocity, or other "historic" thing of note. It may get preserved in amber, rebuilt, or knocked down or paved over, but they at least know the history, if not always respect it.

Folks in the United States, by comparison, have the historic awareness of tree slugs or cicadas. We have a shorter corporate and cultural history, and have chosen to disregard or toss aside much/most of the history that was here before, say, 1620, 1607, or 1585.

The British also have this annoying habit--and they'll freely admit it, with shows like "Antiques Roadshow", which they started--of being collectors and clutter hounds. Americans, despite their own versions of "AR" and nostalgia, lean towards the "new is better" mentality.

Well, If I could choose between a heavyweight or a horizon coach, heavyweight please. It's the fact that there are to few people who care about the nation's history is the problem. You could educate them all you want, but it's a difficult proposition. And it's that mentality of the majority of americans that makes me sick to my stomach.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 10:12 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 822
Location: NJ
Preservation of history will always take a back seat to profit! In this country, you will find plenty of historic sites that were destroyed to put up an office building, mega mall, housing developemnet, etc. It is the nature of the beast. And having a site listed on the National Historic Register doesn't mean it will be saved from the wreckers ball. It is what it is. The same goes for equipment. Just take a look at any of the websites that have historic equipment for sale. If you could afford to buy it, can you afford to move it? And if it is being donated, how many museums have the deep pockets to move it? Not many. And as spelled out in Murphy's law, it will be as far away as possible, driving the cost to move it through the roof.

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1202
Location: Leicester, MA.
Mr. Ed wrote:
Preservation of history will always take a back seat to profit! In this country, you will find plenty of historic sites that were destroyed to put up an office building, mega mall, housing developemnet, etc. It is the nature of the beast. And having a site listed on the National Historic Register doesn't mean it will be saved from the wreckers ball. It is what it is. The same goes for equipment. Just take a look at any of the websites that have historic equipment for sale. If you could afford to buy it, can you afford to move it? And if it is being donated, how many museums have the deep pockets to move it? Not many. And as spelled out in Murphy's law, it will be as far away as possible, driving the cost to move it through the roof.

Later!
Mr. Ed

Well, in taking from Commodore Vanderbilt, "The profit be damned". Who cares if you put everything into a rebuild? To me, the payout of seeing the reaction from the public (both positive and negative, as the negative shows what you could improve) is worth it for me. That's part of why I'm still with the Depot Foundation; something great can come out of a great tragedy, and being able to get my grubby little mitts on the first restoration project that I'd be involved in. There's also my maxim of "Failure is not an option, and nor will it be considered as such".

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