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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:45 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 741
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
INPR (by way of Rio Grande Pacific Corp.) apparently owned ex-MBTA 1105, 1106, 1108, 1112, and 1150, which were in service on various short lines and tourist operations. Hopefully, the other three not shown in the video are still around!

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:56 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 242
Did anyone see these units advertised for sale? I did not and I have been watching for covered wagons for some time now. Ozark Mountain or even Rail Swap would be a easy way to reach a lot of potential buyers. Something is rotten in Denmark.


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:14 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2127
A lot of the potential buyers may have no money to spend on additional equipment for their collections. Most of the organizations locally are telling me that their donations are down anywhere from 50% to 80% compared with a couple years ago. They don't have the financial resources to compete with the presently high scrap value of used locomotives.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:16 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1202
Location: Leicester, MA.
filmteknik wrote:
Are you sure they aren't these? (from the F unit survivor list)

NOGC FP10 New Orleans & Belle Chasse, LA Active 3589 12/46
1105 (F3A) Gulf Coast ex MBTA 1105, nee GM&O 801B
remanufactured ICG, date unknown

NOGC FP10 New Orleans & Belle Chasse, LA 3592 12/46
1106 (F3A) Gulf Coast ex MBTA 1106, nee GM&O 803A
remanufactured ICG, date unknown

There's a gutted FP10 at Edaville. Missing it's prime mover and other important parts, and in warbonnet paint

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Location: Beaumont, Texas
R.L.Kennedy wrote:
Did anyone see these units advertised for sale? I did not and I have been watching for covered wagons for some time now. Ozark Mountain or even Rail Swap would be a easy way to reach a lot of potential buyers. Something is rotten in Denmark.


I have not seen this equipment post-Katrina; but I imagine it all suffered terribly in the chaos since Katrina; remember, this is the New Orleans area.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 419
Location: NJ
Also note, that video is from May of last year. SO these units were cut up quite some time ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 822
Location: NJ
Wow! Will it ever end? Factoid: Scrap is high right now so more equipment, not necessarily RR equipment, will be cut up for scrap. Yes it is sad to see good equipment get scrapped but it is a fact of life. As is this question ever time someone finds another youtube video of RR equipment getting scrapped. Want to save it all? Can't be done and admitting this fact makes the inevitable easier to stand. Yea, it ticks me off to see anything good get scrapped but it has to go somewhere. So unless the preservation industry can find the money to save these, they will continue to get scrapped. Get over it!

Later!
Mr. Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 553
Location: Ballard, WA
As for fuel prices being high, the video is from May 2010 (edit: cjvrr noted that). Also, almost looks like there a big pile of raccoon feces in the cab, or not. Yuck! What is that dirty pile in the cab?


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:25 am
Posts: 1025
My dad worked at an "automotive recycling facility" (i.e. wrecking yard) in the 1930's; some of the stories he told about the cars he dismantled for parts and scrap metal would cause much "wailing and gnashing of teeth" among today's vintage-car fans.
Pacific Electric enthusiasts still mourn the loss of wooden interurban 999, a "system unique" car that some fans were trying to save back around 1950--the money just wasn't there. None of the 1200-class cars (except for business car 1299) survived, and all the 1100's and PCC's went to Argentina. Even if there had been an Orange Empire group in the early 1950's, saving steel cars would have been a major struggle since the Korean War had jacked up scrap-iron prices.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
PCook wrote:
A lot of the potential buyers may have no money to spend on additional equipment for their collections. Most of the organizations locally are telling me that their donations are down anywhere from 50% to 80% compared with a couple years ago. They don't have the financial resources to compete with the presently high scrap value of used locomotives.

The irony is, you look at these museums, and they spend money on equipment for their collection before they spend money on any of the infrastructure required to preserve that equipment.

There's plenty of money out there, but other groups in other fields are more skilled at getting it, and they are aided greatly by having a better plan than most of us. In fact we have money streams most groups do not have; such as the ISTEA money. (or whatever they call it this year.)

For instance a few years ago they subsidized projects which were "shovel ready". This was an attempt to obey Keynes and Hayek at once: Keynes said doesn't matter what you build, as long as you build. Hayek says if you build useless stuff you pay for it later, and people themselves know best what is needed. So, they funded projects which locals had already deemed worthy in a sincere way: by having funded the design.

So how many of us were there, ready with "shovel-ready" projects? And our problem will always be consensus: OK we just got flooded out, do we build where we are, or move? We changed focus onto electric railways, do we rethink the site plan, or just delete the roundhouse? Or the classic: do we save for the car-barn, or save this unit that's about to get scrapped?


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: B'more Maryland
One other thing to think about in the matrix of all of this:
Every day there's one day more of history to preserve. At some point, you just have to let some things go.

For example, how many Fs are still out there? How many of them do you consider in "safe" places? The answer is that there are a bunch, so I'm not worried about one or two more getting scrapped.

At the same time, how many P30CHs are out there still? Oops... It's why, despite my lack of faith in the group trying to preserve F40PHs, I think they do deserve to be on the "endangered species list". Same thing with the AEM7. Yes, they're still running today, but I have a feeling the end will come for them quickly, and probably relatively soon.

THOSE are the things we need to start paying attention, and being ready for, as a community.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:16 am
Posts: 2127
That is an impressive machine to be able to rip the entire accessory rack right off its mountings and just dump it on the ground. I notice the engines are 567C's and they are not making any effort to save anything, it looks like they are still fully equipped and just being cut up for scrap value. Same with the HEP unit.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 9:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 741
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Looks like #1105 and #1108 spray painted on the fuel tanks in the second video.

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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:39 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 483
Location: Oroville, CA
Yes, to us it is tragic to see such historic pieces cut up, BUT railroad preservation is miles ahead of Marine preservation. As I write this the newest all steam paddlewheel overnight steamboat is being cut up for scrap. This American vessel, the Mississippi Queen was sold to a Hong-Kong dealer, who refused good offers from folks who wanted to restore her to operation because he could get more money as scrap. He has no understanding of our history, just a quick way to make money--and he was helped by the previous owner who apparently did not want to see anyone else operate the steamboats successfully since they failed at it.
There are other F units out there, there is no other boat like this ANYWHERE!!
Yes, I probably sound a bit bitter--it is so frustrating to see what the public and corporations consider important, or worthy of their interest. Another marine icon, Admiral Dewey's flagship, the Olympia, while in great restored condition, needs major hull repair costing about $5 million or it will be scuttled to become a divers' attraction. They can't seem to get public interest in raising this amount to save a ship as significant to US history as Old Ironsides--but Sacramento, CA can raise over $5 million in less than two weeks too keep a BASKETBALL team in town!!
It doesn't look good for historic preservation.
Steamcerely,
David Dewey (yes, a cousin of Admiral Dewey)


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 Post subject: Re: Why are these great looking F units being cut up?
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
Posts: 741
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Perhaps the bigger tragedy is that six of the 15 ex-MBTA "F10's" went directly to Naporano to scrap in about 1995 when MBTA sold off all their F-units. At least these two lasted a while longer.

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