You could also look at it another way. The foundation is controlled by the railroad, the railroad is getting a fully restored engine for $1 per year, the foundation is not being compensated for it's huge investment, and after 15 years the foundation has a whole $15 and an engine that needs a whole lot of work.

Right from the website the foundation says it mission is: "The W.J. Sawyer Educational Foundation is a non-profit organization created to solicit and raise funds to support the steam restoration program."

The people in charge of the foundation:

"The foundation will consist of a Board of Directors to direct the activities of the restoration and disbursement of funds. The board will consist of 7 members to include: The General Manager of the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad, two employees of the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad with steam engine experience, the attorney for the foundation, two local business associates and a descendant of W.J. Sawyer."

Even Ray Charles would see that the railroad is donating the locomotives to a non-profit it completely controls and is using the whole non-profit cloak to fund the restoration of it's locomotives to make a profit.

How legitimate is this group? Do they actually have contract with folks at GSMR or is it something started with the hopes they can make this happen?

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but I always questions things like this on the internet. The part that gets me is that there are no names. Who is running this, and who are these board members?

I must say I was thinking the same thing. The website is quite limited and was NOT spell checked.

A quick check on Melissa Data (a website you can search for non-profit groups) reveals nothing. http://www.melissadata.com/lookups/np.a ... it1=Submit

I also have to question the exact, to cent, estimates on the site. I cannot imagine anyone would be able, or even try, to be that exact in a estimate for restoring anything, let alone 100 year old steam locomotives that have been exposed to the elements as long as these engines have been.

Anything could be stranger. I can think of 113, Welsh Pony (it hasn't started yet, but it will run eventually), Palmerston, and soon, New Haven 3025. You could be down, but that doesn't mean that you're out.

As long as SOMETHING is done with these engines, even cosmetic only, is better than their present condition. If this is the only way to see either engine run again, so be it.

:)

Martin

Anything could be stranger. I can think of 113, Welsh Pony (it hasn't started yet, but it will run eventually), Palmerston, and soon, New Haven 3025. You could be down, but that doesn't mean that you're out.[/quote]

Exactly what does New Haven 3025 have to do with this discussion?

Exactly what does New Haven 3025 have to do with this discussion?[/quote]
Well, if 722 and 1702 have been dumped on some siding, I can imagine that the 3025 having been torched could make it fall into the catagory of totally trashed prior to restoration.

The "new" New Haven engine was damaged cosmetically and due for it's 1472. Not "trashed" totally, whatever that means. As has been said in this forum ad nauseum, all it takes is cubic dollars and a business plan. If the plan for these two engines stands up to the light of scrutiny by the powers that be, it may become an excellent way that steam can be preserved in the future. The 1702 in the web pics shows mapping for ultrasound testing not "dumped on a siding" but probably stalled for lack of the aforesaid cubic dollars. This is the case for many steam engines out there. Sadly many engines have been in this state as money gets tight. It was well over twenty-five years ago that I heard of the Skookum, which has been apart many years. As I understand it, it is getting closer but not finished. I'm sure as money and manpower comes along it will, it's not in a scrapyard and not "trashed". There are many bright spots in this field. They hopefully will succeed in their mission and maybe pioneers in this means to run steam. Many tourist lines have been unable to surmount the challenges of keeping these old machines running and have had to resort to diesel power. Cosmetic issues don't make an engine "trashed" nor does disassembly. It's part of a process. It's always lack of money and skilled manpower that makes these things difficult. As a rule, railfans commit little towards funding these things, going to "Railfan" events only to take pics and sometimes whatever's not nailed down and not even buying a ticket, later opining about what this or that railroad should "do". Some even making a life mission criticizing one or the other.

Sounds sort of fishy, but I would rather see SOU 722 & USA 1702 restored in any condition, than have them both in pieces. GSMR sounds like they are trying to get the steamers off their hands, while retaining some form of ownership. This probably the rest route to go in order see them back together.