Tim -

Maybe the best place to visit would be the office of the Korean National Railroads (or whatever it is called) to see if they might have a list of preserved locomotives and if they could advise if any U.S. steam locomotives sent over during that period might have been preserved for posterity. Perhaps something might exist that are not known to James Hefner, or other keepers of such lists.

Les

Am I seeing things or is that DPM in the right-hand seat of SL-SF 4220?

Howard P.
1027 Memory La.
MILW

Did anyone consider contacting the people who maintain the memorial to see if THEY know what happened to the Erie pacific?

Too bad the Frisco didn't build that Berkshire; she sure would have been a pretty thing!

Les

"Did anyone consider contacting the people who maintain the memorial to see if THEY know what happened to the Erie pacific?"

Indeed I did. When I went to Imjingang in May 2009, I asked some long-time employees if they knew of a locomotive that had been on display but possibly later moved. They said no. The only locomotives on display are a Japanese locomotive and the derelict one recovered from the DMZ and put on display in mid-2009, shortly after my visit. I strongly suspect the Erie locomotive was never at this location and that someone mistook the Japanese locomotive for it at some point in the past, giving rise to hopes that it still existed. I first went to this location in late 1987 and at that time only the Japanese locomotive was there - no Erie locomotive.

I plan to meet with the curator of the Korean Railroad Museum in Uiwang to see if there are any surviving steam locomotives in addition to the ones already on James' list. There's the possibility of one on a live steam excursion line but I doubt there will be any big surprises.

Tim;

I think the one you are referring to is on my list as #11; it is an SY class 2-8-2 built in Changchun (China) in 1994.

It was running in excursion service on the Seoul-Uijongbu Line; though I believe it is out of service at this time.

Tim -

You are probably right. There will be no big surprises. But then again, you never know. Look at the Soo Line 2-8-0 up in the northwest corner of North Dakota that the Soo Line Historical-Technical Society didn't know anything about and which J. David did not have in his book either.

Les

"It was running in excursion service on the Seoul-Uijongbu Line; though I believe it is out of service at this time."

I asked about that operation when I was in Korea in 2002 and 2005, but the information desk in the Seoul main station said no, it was no longer in operation. In May 2009, coming back on a southbound train from Imjingang to Seoul, I saw what looked like the back end of steam locomotive's tender protruding from a concrete shelter in Susaek. My train passed by quickly and I wasn't able to get a picture, but I plan to go up to Susaek during my upcoming trip to see what I can find out. Possibly it's the one that was being used for excursion service on the Seoul-Uijongbu line, but I won't know for certain until I see it up close.

Last year a DC-area Korean language newspaper carried an article about a steam excursion operation on a line made redundant by the construction of a newer, straighter line. I'll see if I can track down that operation and find out what they're using.

I would be interested in learning how that "Frisco" Berkshire was created. -- i.e., from what locomotive was the trailing truck "borrowed?" It's a very good job. I have done similar creations (see http://www.railarchive.net/fantasysteam), including a Canadian National 2-8-4. I think I would have lengthened the firebox somewhat to justify the larger trailing truck, and renumbered the locomotive into a new Frisco series.

(This is really the opposite of "railway preservation," isn't it? More like "railway reinventing.")

This is re-inventing the wheel, all things considered.

Recently I returned from a three-week trip to Korea that included a visit to the Korea Railroad Museum in Uiwang and a sit-down chat with Sohn Gil-Shin, the KRM's director.

Earlier I had sent a picture of the nebulous Erie K-1 locomotive to Director Sohn, and I mentioned how there was speculation that the locomotive had been on display at Imjingak and that it had somehow been moved and put into storage somewhere. (Stored where, for what purpose, for how long, who knows?) He just chuckled and noted the locomotive was never preserved at Imjingak or anywhere else. The story surrounding the Erie K-1 appears to be pure myth and wishful thinking, and there's no indication it did anything different than most other steam locomotives in Korea by going from service to the scrapper. Unless someone is able to produce some photographic evidence to the contrary, it would appear someone (1) either made a big mistake in confusing the Japanese locomotive at Imjingak for an Erie K-1, or (2) deliberately concocted a BS tale, knowing it would be a very long time before anyone actually went halfway around the world to discover the truth, if in fact anyone ever did. This one is probably worthy of entry in Snopes.com.

I asked Director Sohn about the Chinese-built steam locomotive that had handled excursions on the Seoul-Uijongbu line about a decade or more ago and the tender of a steam locomotive I'd seen protruding from a shelter in Susaek on my way back from Imjingak in May 2009. Director Sohn said the locomotive in Susaek was the Chinese locomotive, and it has been put on display in Mungyeong in central South Korea.

I asked if there were ANY US-built steam locomotives remaining in Korea and Director Sohn said no. I asked about the Alco steam locomotive on display next door at the Korean National Railroad College and Director Sohn said there was some inaccurate information on the sign in front of the locomotive. It is, in fact, not a true steam locomotive at all. It's not a retired locomotive that was cut open for display of how a locomotive works, but instead it was actually built that way for use in 1935 as a training tool. He described it as Japanese made, using Alco specs. I had to admit, I looked at that locomotive and it didn't look entirely American. Now I know why.

After all that bad news, here's some good news. My wife and I took a KTX high speed train (300 kph/186.4 mph) from Seoul to Pusan (now Busan) and located the large KORAIL shops where locomotives and rail cars are maintained. During the Korean War, in early 1951, the US Army shipped 41 new EMD SW8s to Korea for use by Army railway operating battalions, and some of them were later turned over to the Korean National Railroad. Only one remains, and it's stored in the back of an engine stall at the Pusan shops. Diesel Locomotive Team Leader Kim Hyun-Sik graciously took us down to where the locomotive is located and let me look around it. It has been designated as a national treasure and is listed as the oldest diesel locomotive in the country. Current plans are to preserve it on display somewhere in Pusan, not as a stand-alone feature, but instead along with other historical items. KORAIL is currently in negotiations with the city on a site and what it'll be displayed with.

Unfortunately, all of the US-built steam locomotives in Korea are long gone.

Tim;

Thank you for contacting me via e-mail about this; and sorry have not responded yet; was out of town for most of the weekend.

Mostly bad news from the steam locomotive front; but at least it will be correct now. I will have the changes in for the next release.

Tim: I think we all owe you a debt of gratitude for going to Korea and doing the necessary digging to turn up the truth. Well done, and thank you!

Dick

It was kind of shocking to see the thread back on top again. Thanks for sharing the truth about these locomotives. Its sad none are preserved, but with enough money and time, one can be recreated. Thanks again for talking to the right people to about the engines!

The real thanks go to my poor, suffering wife, Sohee, who is not a railfan but tolerates my hobby. While stationed at Osan Air Base for a year in 2000 on active duty with the USAF, she told me about seeing an advertisement for the museum, so when I came to visit at the midpoint of her tour, we went out there. Eventually I made contact with the director, who provided me with information I could never have found on my own. I must also thank my wife for her translation skills. Neither Director Sohn nor Team Leader Kim in the Pusan shops speak English, so everything we said went through her. Sohee also arranged all ticket purchases and guided me onto the correct trains on KORAIL, the Seoul Metro and the Pusan subway system. Additionally, she dealt with taxi drivers and information booths in helping to locate places such as the Pusan shops. (I had a general idea of its location but didn't have an address before I went there.)

Thanks also go to Director Sohn and Team Leader Kim for graciously taking the time to answer any questions and show me around their facilities. In fact, everywhere I went, people were extremely nice and helpful.

One pleasant surprise I had was to learn there are indeed Korean railfans, and they're organized. You can see more at this URL:

http://cafe.daum.net/psg8877

Unfortunately it's all in Korean, but you can try your luck with the links and find some pictures. It's good to know, however, that fellow buffs exist on the far side of the world and that trains there aren't viewed by all as just a utility.