Why is this forum becoming another RAILFAN site full of useless personal drivel, instead of a progressive site on historic railroad preservation? Can we quit the child like bantering and return to the business of discussing preservation and operating historic rail equipment. After all isn't it called the interchange for a reason, interchange usefull information not useless info. Why let a few spoil it for the rest of us who come here for information. I for one am in favor of stricter moderation of the posts to keep them on target if the moderators have the time. Heck, I'll even volunteer to help moderate.
My 2 cents,
Mike Tillger

As I write this reply this is the top five threads on the Interchange:

DL&W F3 restored at Steamtown
C&O 614 possibly returning to C&O territory to perhaps run
Lackawanna Station manager coming to to the forum and talking up the restored station
modern day railroad museum ideas
Flagg Coal no. 75 goes to Scranton

Which of these do not belong on a railroad preservation forum? Are not all of these preservation related?

I think what Mike was getting at is how topics start out as preservation news and then one person posts a joke or whatnot then people start replying to that and eventually what started out talking about saving a train has become about what’s for dinner in New Jersey.

Perfect interpretation Aaron, thank you.
Mike Tillger

Your rookie moderator is working hard. IN the last few days I have deleted one post and sent a few PMs to remind people of the guidelines. Please use the report feature or PM a moderator when there are posts that are contrary to the guidelines.

One thing to note is that after a while we all get to know each other, at least in the virtual sense around here, if not in person. Therefore, sometimes threads drift, depending on who is posting, etc.

Overall, this is probably the best moderated site of all the railroad sites I am on. The mods have to earn a living to pay the bills, so some days things can get a bit out of hand while they are off earning the rent and such...

Oh, and Tom, glad to see you as a mod. Good luck!

Oh so what you don't like is that nasty human trait called conversation. Thread drift is something that has been around since the invention of the Internet in the 1990s, and your post, as well as probably a hundred similar ones I have seen on forums in the past 15 years is not going to stop it.

If you see a thread drift away, post something to bring it back to the topic being discussed.

Stationary Steam, yes you are right, I don't like conversation where it is not supposed to be. Please read the Interchange guidelines here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27206

I know I am not going to stop it, that would be like trying to regulate stupidity, I am just asking my fellow posters to stick to the rules of the Interchange, as I believe the moderators do a great job and we all should try and stick to the posted guidelines and make their job that much easier.

Mike Tillger

Actually, it's been around since before the internet, we started it back in the days of dial up BBS systems, then systems like Compuserve, GEnie and AOL brought it to the masses. I've been doing this since late 80's, back when moderators were called sysops (system operators), and you dialed up the computer directly. Nothing much has changed but the technology.

Here's the problem... If you let topics drift too much, then the place becomes a mass of jokes and banter and useless drivel. Crank things down too tightly, and the place isn't any fun any more, and folks stop participating.

Tom, since you're new at moderating, here's how to tell you're doing a good job. When half the folks are whining you're too tolerant of chatter and the other half are grumbling you're overly strict about being on topic, you've reached the balance point. :)

This has to be enjoyable, or folks won't do it. Keeping things on track, while still having fun is much tougher than it looks.

Mike, Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! This is the one last best place we have to "interchange" converstaions of importance regarding rr preservation and operation.

I would STRONGLY endorse your becoming a moderator IMMEDIATELY and again express my profound thanks for your willingness to do so.

I for one would like to see RyPN ban anonymous posting but I realize that I'm in the minority on that and I can live with it.

However as the current Greenbrier/614 thread so amply illustrates there are a very few "frequent fliers" on here who have no appreciable track record of their own to establish their bona-fides but who CONSTANTLY denigrate the conversation with useless tripe and constant sniping. Either they should be asked to leave OR told to stop in no uncertain terms. Enough is enough already. One of them was the direct cause of the Chaski site dieing to its present skeletal shadow.

Please Mike, come aboard and help this site fulfill its important role.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

As an American railfan living in the Philippines, the almost trackless land, I am very thankful for this forum. Helps me keep my sanity, and although I almost never reply to any messages, I signed in on this one just to say that I agree whole heartedly with Mike and Ross. I belong to another group that is SUPPOSED to be discussing issues and solutions for expats living in the Philippines, but has denegrated to the point of being nothing more than a select few griping and slamming peoples ideas and grammar. I think the moderators here do a great job. Somebody started a thread concerning a Canadian steam engine, and when it became apparant it was a doubtful situation, the thread was deleted. That's the way to moderate, good job.
Dave Keiser, Dipolog City, Upper Turno Barangay, Zamboanga Del Norte Province, Mindanao Island, Philippines

As one of the other moderators, I'll throw my thoughts (and defacto personal guidelines for how I tread these waters) out there for what little they're worth...

(And welcome Tom, I haven't had a chance to say that till now !)

The internet challenges the very concept of something all of us will stand on at varying points in our lives, the idea of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech does not allow you to slander or make up things, but this doesn't always translate into the real world. While this board has specific rules and guidelines which technically speaking, restrict free speech, it also comes with a proviso. Along with free speech, you also have the freedom of self-censorship. Don't like something, pass it by, it's really no different than channel surfing as you watch TV.

There is basically only one possible way to restrict the postings to topics relative to a site, and that is to restrict the access so that every posting needs to be reviewed and moderated before it becomes "public". Very tedious, very time consuming, very limiting in terms of getting information flow and timeliness of postings,, and also, those posts inevitably become filtered through the personal filters of whichever moderator is reviewing that given post. To give an example, a moderator may be involved with a specific organization, and a posting (fully correct, legitimate, and within RYPN guidelines) appears for approval that is critical of that organization or efforts, that could, potentially, suddenly disappear. Nothing sinister, per se, just one person deciding that they're better informed of the "realities" than someone else.

I would describe our current set-up as the best of a tricky situation. And those of you who've been here awhile know,, this is the best it's been in a long time. Please understand that this board also serves as a touch point for many in the railfan and preservation community that are simply everyday museum visitors, very few people can get to as many places and sites as they might like, and the harsh truth is that most operations are so innundated and involved with "real work", that information, and timely interchange often falls by the wayside. Again, postings and questions here that may be "railfan" orginated, also draw the attention and potential visitors (and cash dollars) to all of our respective operations.

A timely example, IRM has a small event today to formally announce the completion of a long time restoration project on a Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee interurban. Other than a couple message boards or somewhere like RYPN, this would not be known to the "general public", they would miss the event, as well as IRM's efforts in bringing out a wide array of associated equipment for the day. Again, visitors equal dollars.

I generally try to moderate quietly, behind the scenes. Like an official in a football game, I have a task to perform, but I should be generaly invisible and not affect the outcome. Sometimes that's possible, sometimes, like Randy's efforts last week on the Canadian steam postings and the various efforts by one person to contiually circumvent the rules, you have to be more visible.

I think I can speak for all of us, we than you for your continued support, interaction, and frankly,,, patience !

In one of my other writing fields--craft beer--we have two kinds of writers out there.

There's the kind who breathlessly and cheerfully report and rehash any new beer, bar, or press release with enthusiasm, and obviously live by the adage "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

A smaller pool, however, tells it as it is. I'm one of the latter. I don't go out looking for things to write negatively about, and frankly wish I never ran into anything negative. But if I find a place brewing bad beer, or a beer that's all hype and no substance, or receive egregiously bad service, I'm going to say something, preferably in as constructive a manner as I can to those who are in a position to do something about it, and then if that fails to others as a warning or to stimulate discussion.

You'll see similar types of writing divides in just about any specialist field--foodie blogs, automobile hobby and industry blogs, hobby publications in general, and in some cases even newspapers and media outlets (or what purport to be). At the same time, it often takes some journalists (or journalist wannabes) ages to figure out that not all journalism has to be anti-"establishment" or adversarial in nature, as seen in many an "alternative" weekly paper or journal.

Even one of the brewers who had one of my negative reviews on a dart board a decade ago now considers me his friend, or at least a good business associate. At worst, I can agree to diplomatically disagree with someone in the field, much as Rowland might "disagree" with Bennett Levin for preserving and operating diesels instead or steam. And, yes, in beer as well as railroading, we get defenders screaming "How DARE you criticize [brewer/brewery founder's] beers! He's done so many wonderful things for us, what have YOU done? Where's YOUR brewpub?" etc.

The problem with "rah-rah" positive "journalism" or discussion is that eventually it can mutate into the "party rag" like Pravda. Negative stuff happens out there. If it's not adequately discussed and debated, at best a new generation doesn't learn from what doesn't work or other mistakes made; at worst, negligent or irresponsible behavior occurs with no questioning, accountability or responsibility.

Look at the recent discussions of the proposed F40 preservation and "how to start a railroad museum." The instigators of these topics could regard the responses as scathing, blistering negativity, but there were also frank and brutal assessments from those who have "been there, done that." Is the better option to restrict such responses to Oprah Winfrey-style boosterism, straight from the pages of motivational speakers, and in five or ten years watch yet another "McRail Museum" get scrapped, feasted upon at auction, or whatever? Do we really want to cheer on every last local group that thinks it can restore their local park steam locomotive to operation on the main line, without giving them both inspiration and motivation (NKP 765, PM 1225, SP 4449, UP 3985, MILW 261, etc.) and reality checks and cautionary tales (PRR 1361, WM 202, SP&S 700, Frisco 1522, etc.)?

RyPN doesn't need to give a platform to people postulating conspiracy theories ("It's all Obama's fault!" "No, it's Bushitler's fault!") or the daily updates on the locomotives that just went by on today's peddler freight on an obscure branch line, or everybody's video from the past weekend's activities trackside. That's what moderators need to keep in check--that and various advertisements for body enhancements and exceedingly polite Nigerian bankers and handbag dealers. But restricting or regulating unpopular or less-than-cheerful speech can serve to make this forum equally banal and useless, in the long run. If we don't discuss the negative (the negatives based on reality and not rumors, of course), then we set the stage for the negative to recur over and over.

On another forum that I visit, a party sought photos of trains in service on a former line that had just been turned into a rail trail, after 20+ years of unsuccessful short line and excursion operation. The photos were to be used to set up historical displays along the trail, relating the rail history to its eventual users. The post was greeted with outright profanity and hostility from users upset at the rail line's scrapping and questioning the expenditure of monies to create the trail. If it wasn't for me steering the person to other possible sources for the photos, that trail would probably sorely lack any rail history recognition. If the folks "running" that forum had their way, they probably would have banned any discussion of the rail line once the track had been scrapped. Not "positive" enough, you know.

There are different ways of offering criticism: The "You Moron!" style just creates hostility, while, suggesting, "You might try this...." or "Your situation may be different, but at our museum, we've found that ....... has worked very well" can lead to worthwhile discussion. The inquiry about starting a new museum brought forth some "tell it like it is" replies, but did not say "Abandon all hope." Granted, those of us who started in railway preservation many years ago probably have a lot of sympathy for those trying to establish one in a "whole different world" from 40 or 50 years ago.

You can dress up constant carping negativeism in as long winded a robe as possible ( pls. see above) and it's still that!!

Please Mike, come aboard and at least help reduce this counter productive nonsense to minimum!!

Thanks, Ross Rowland,PHD,SHK,SEE,HMFWIC,...Chairman
Eliminate Terminal Gas Bagitis Committee