This is a question for some of our more local Atlanta area posters. I have seen a couple of photos on-line (from the WSB news helicopter) that show substantial parts of Six Flags under water from the massive amounts of rain that have fallen in the Atlanta area for the past week. Is there any word regarding the railroad shop and the status of whatever locomotives they have there? As far as I know they did away with steam several years ago, but I had heard a rumor that they were considering going back, and was just wondering if the flooding had impacted the shop or if it was okay. Its been many years since I worked there, so just curious. Thanks.

Hi Steve,

When I worked there, the 'hooch would flood on a semi-yearly basis. The only places that were usually affected were the parking lot area closest to the river and the footings around the Scream Machine. According to the AJC, they plan to open this weekend.

I would be interested to know where you heard that rumor...they practically gutted both boilers in the ill-contrived "conversions" and destroyed both tenders. The valve gear for the "General" was tossed, while "someone" was able to salvage the "Texas'". :-) Given Six Flags historic dislike of spending money, and given their current dire financial straights, I would consider it unlikely. They would have to also address the problem that put them out of the steam business in the first place...the apparent lack of individuals amongst the Six Flags workforce with the intelligence and maturity to operate steam, and the apparent lack of ability/desire among middle management to "beat the bushes" and locate enough of said individuals to operate the train seven days a week during the summer. I wish it would happen, don't get me wrong, I had alot of fun out there...

Andrew Durden
SRM

They would also need a good reason to go back to steam power.

What advantage does it have? Would anyone actually visit the park just because old #852 is now powered by real steam?

Don't forget, this is an amusement park, not a tourist railway. Most folks these days can't tell the difference. On our tourist railway I've had discussions with folks about who were wondering why the train wasn't being pulled by a steam locomotive, while standing next to a 2-8-2 under steam. (Apparently if it's not actually belching huge clouds of black smoke some folks don't think it's steam...)

Since Six Flags sells the park based on things like "Ride the spinning and twirling wheel of terror 'til you puke!" they probably wouldn't see enough increased attendence to justify the increased cost, risk and staffing issues.

Even Disney, long a stalwart of "real steam" has gone to fake steam locos in various parks like the Animal Kingdom.

They're not a museum, and they're not in the business to preserve history. There has to be an economical reason to it...

I shutter to think that any of these organizations own a historic steam locomotive. I hope that the ones that are being referred to were the ones that were built for amusement park use and not real historic units.

They were built by Bob Harpur (the same Bob Harpur that rebuilt the locomotives for Disneyworld) in 1966. Nearly identical locomotives were built for the now-defunct Six Flags Astroworld in Houston. The Astroworld boilers were built by a different company than those of the Over Georgia engines. I am told that the two 4-4-0s at Disneyland were built from the same plans, but have never been able to confirm it.

The desecration of the Six Flags engines is not as tragic it would be if a locomotive from the "steam era" were involved, but they are historic in their own right as they are rare among park locomotives.

Thanks, Andrew. As I recall the shop was up a good way from the parking lot elevation, but as I said, it has been a while. I'll presume the shop is okay. As to the rumor of the return to steam, no point in beating a dead horse. It was a rumor I heard from a friend in the Atlanta area...and I'll say no more about it. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Bob, I understand what you are saying completely. Economics is the crux of everything that is done in the business world. So, if it meant they would make more money, they might consider it. I'm not arguing that it would or would not...that is not the point. I think, however, that what Andrew said is probably spot-on. My guess, Andrew, is that after Doug Stanfield retired as shop foreman they tried to fill that slot from within. All of the higher-up maintenance guys I knew really didn't care for what we did at the end of each operating season. It was real work. When Doug was there we rebuilt one locomotive during the off-season, with Doug and 2 helpers being the entire labor force for all the in-house work. Some work was contracted out, of course.

When I was there ('84-'85) we had a couple of retired railroaders who kept the "young bucks" of the operating crews in line (or tried to). It was an interesting time...you could actually learn something from them if you wanted to. I was in maintenance, not operations. Railroad Helper was my official title, but I was a machinist and mechanic and anything else needed, except pressure vessel repair. I knew the operating crews well and did some time firing and a little running, too. Mostly, I just kept them running. The first shift engine crew was usually in by the time I got to work, steam cleaning and polishing the brass. There was some pride there...it wasn't just a job.

Lest we forget, these were real, working steam locomotives. Yes, they were built for the park, as Andrew has explained, but that does not make them any less of a steam locomotive, and being over 40 years old (43 this year, I believe), they could certainly be considered "historic" in their own right. Besides, in early 1984, Six Flags was one of only 2 places where you could see steam locomotives operating with any regularity in the entire state. The other was at SERM. (The New Georgia Railroad operation was just getting started at this time, so maybe you can claim there were 3 in-state steam operations, but all 3 were in the Atlanta area.) So, don't disparage "my" locomotives, please. I learned a lot and ultimately got to work with Bill Purdie and some other SR/NS Steam Excursion folks who became lifelong friends through that first involvement with steam.

Lastly, what about all the Porters, Vulcans, etc. that have been used/abused by "amusement parks" through the years. I remember a 1984 trip with some of the Six Flags conductors and crew to Opryland in Tennessee. They had one operating live steamer (a Porter?), and it "threw up" on us on a trip around the park because it lifted water, and we were, of course, sitting in the front 2 seats of the front coach, right behind that little locomotive. Somewhere I have photos of the other park locos there, the diesel(?)hydraulic-powered, converted steam locos that were in the shop and pulling the other train. Wouldn't those be considered "historic"? Well... the Six Flags locomotives may not have been "as historic" as those, but they sure were better looking!

> So, don't disparage "my" locomotives, please.

I'm not being critical of park trains in general, or those locomotives in particular.

I like park trains, and in fact I occasionally work as an engineer on a local park railway. It's a neat little operation with two Crown 4-4-0's and I really enjoy it.
http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/sh ... hoto/57267

They also promote the steam train ride as a major attraction. Then again, this is a small farm type park, and the only "roller coaster" is the kiddy kind, with a terrifying first drop of about all of 10 feet, if that much. :) Unlike Knotts, for this place the "farm" is still real, and an important part of the attraction.

If I had my way, there would be NO replica steamers, "steam outline" or bast.... uh, I mean, butchered (gotta keep it G rated) steam locomotives. But I'm not in charge of Six Flags, thank heavens!, and the folks who are in charge are in business to make momey, not preserve steam railroading. You have to consider what the goal of the operation is. For railroad museums, the goal is to preserve railroad history, and that often includes a steam train. For Six Flags, and others of that kind, the goal is to provide an amusement park which will attract guests.

Will a real steam train, in that setting, attract more guests? Probably not any significant amount. Will it cause more expense? Yes, it will, in both operation and maintenance. Will it create an added risk? Yes, it will. If you don't think there is more risk in running steam than there is in running diesel, you're not paying attention.


I travel long distances to ride Park Trains. I routinely make the trip from Seattle to Portland just so I can ride the 30" steamer at the zoo. But I also know there aren't enough folks who do that to make Six Flags put steam back in operation.

I happened to be at Canobie Lake Park in Salem, NH this weekend - home to a nice 24" propane-fired Crown. I overheard the following conversation while waiting for the train to pull into the station:

Man (to wife) - "I like trains. I wish I had a setup like this in our backyard. You know, there's a guy not far from here who has one and gives rides to the neighbors."
(Wife looks disinterested)
4-4-0 Steam train blows whistle and chuffs by on the loop track before returning to the station.
Man - "What a beautiful train. Too bad its a diesel."
(I refrain from comment or laughter.)
Train pulls into station.
Wife (to man) - "What's that fire near where the driver is sitting?"

I did not hear the response, because I was trying so hard not to laugh.

-Ed Lecuyer

Great story Ed, I can easily picture that happening.

Obviously, with a propane fire you don't get any smoke and crowns don't generally put out of a lot of steam clouds, so they are worse than most steamers in the "it doesn't look like it's a real steam train" department.

The doubleheader shot I posted above is a bit of a rarity. It's taken in October, first trip of the day, so the air was still quite cold. I don't think we had a frost, but it was chilly. They were also making lots of steam for the photo (down in the corner, whistle wide open, injector on and intentionally not priming). It's probably the most steam I've ever seen in a shot of a Crown locomotive.

You're right about folks being fooled by the Propane. Many people ask if it's a real steam locomotive. However, a lot of folks know it is when they hear the whistle. The only "catch" to that approach is that an air whistle can sound good enough to fool many people.

(My uncle, who is somewhat familiar with trains, swore there was a steam train running near his farm. After a bit of a investigation, I found the Kiski Junction RR had a Hancock Air whistle on their diesel and that's what was fooling him...)

TAN:
Thanks for the nice photos of the doubleheader, and for solving the old rumor that the Bessemer & Lake Erie had put one of their stored steam engines back in service.