Has anyone ever restored a wooden car for occasional operation, which had previously been restored (from a body) for static display?

Our group (http://www.spcrr.org) is currently re-restoring c.1895 North Pacific Coast Railroad caboose (number unknown), later North Shore Railroad 2002, later North Western Pacific Railroad 6101, later NWP 5591.

The car, reduced to a body about 1932, was eventually used as a building within a state park, who transferred the mortal remains to the Pacific Coast Chapter of the Railway Locomotive Historical Society in the late 1960’s. They had the car restored at the Bethlehem Shipyard in San Francisco in 1970. That restoration was done by skilled carpenters and workmen, who unfortunately knew nothing about museum practice or railroad technology. The result was a car that looked pretty good, but can’t be pulled in a train, with a fictional interior arraignment, grooved plywood siding, a brake system in which the rods were supposed to push rather than pull, and couplers and draft gear which was a work of fiction.

The R&LHS transferred this car along with their entire collection to the California State Railroad Museum. The car was occasionally displayed, particularly in the early years, but was displaced by a much better caboose from the Pacific Coast Railroad, donated by Ward Kimball.

Several years ago CSRM first loaned, then donated the caboose to the SPCRR… While being moved to our site the car hit a low overpass, damaging the cupola.

We have reinstalled the cupola (it still needs new window sash and canvas roof). We dropped the couplers earlier this month and have a blacksmith reworking the yokes. Draft springs and follower plates, missing in action are being located. We are installing platform tension rods, ignored in the previous restoration. Brake rods and levers are being pulled from stock or remade as needed.

We discovered that the shipyard installed truss rods are too small, and they only re-installed 2 of 4 original rods.

The platform end rails are really terrible weldments. These are being replaced by much more correct forged posts and rails with cast washers.

We have to pull the plywood floor to access the bolts holding the platforms (sagging due to loose bolts). We will replace the plywood with t&g Douglas fir… likely correct but of course the previous restoration removed all evidence.

For now we are replacing the siding on the cupola with correct passenger car siding. The plywood on the car body will remain for now, an admission that money is an issue. We will continue to use the present arch bar trucks until correct wood beam pedestal passenger car style trucks can be fabricated.

Finally we will repaint the car, base on research on the few areas of the carbody which carry original paint… this time without the “redwood route” herald which currently adorns the car, but was never used on cars in service… a romantic idea, applied under the supervision of railfans. It is being restored as NWP 5591, circa 1928, which best matches the carbody received. Many of our members were hoping for a NPC or NS restoration, but we just can’t support those with the carbody without significant modification.

With a little luck and hard work the car will run this September. Over the next 10 or so years we expect to deal with other issues... one at a time.

Mr. Hees:

You might want to check with the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. They are currently restoring a bobber from scratch.

Picking up a caboose or passenger car from a non-railroad source is always fraught with danger. I remember being shown a series of photos of the "restoration" of a Soo caboose on display in Ladysmith, WI. The chicken coop carpenter tore out all the car posts, sway braces and girths, and built a friggin" 2x4 stud wall in their place. The chances of this car ever operating again are remote, but what a surprise if someone does acquire it with that in mind.



Too bad about the window, I guess that was beyond them. At least they didn't try to use a garage slid-by unit from Home Depot.

Our car was not butchered as badly as the Soo car... But we did lose all original siding, and any evidence of the original interior.

On the other hand we got a cosmetically decent car, preserved (a body with the roof failing in 1960 would not have survived until we formed in 1976) with original walls, and a good copy of the cupola, roof, and platforms. We also received a set of parts which make the car whole if not correct... trucks, couplers, a stove, new doors, some brakes parts, and a generally weather tight car.

Paint history is difficult, much is lost, but there is some original paint left. The trucks (arch bar) are wrong, but work until we can build a correct set (wood frame passenger style trucks)

They apparently replaced the side sills and end beams, but sensitively. It appears the wall framing is still present.

Its hard to be too critical, who else was restoring caboose or freight cars from bodies in 1970?

It appears that when the shipyard crew rebuilt the car, if they had an original assembly they copied it faithfully... but if they didn't they got creative, not in a good way.

We will be able to restore the car, but we will make more guesses than we usually do.

Randy,

The cushioning system on this caboose is it a tandem draft rigging or draft gear? If it is a tandem draft rigging I might know of a company that makes the class g springs used in this system. If you are still looking for these springs let me know and I will get you the company info.

randy,

There must be something called caboose flu going around California these days.

The NWP Historical Society is finished one of their cars #13 and started on another
caboose from the Southern Pacific.

The Western railway Museum is doing a lot of work on a Sacramento Northern caboose

And way down south the Orange Empire Railway Museum has done cosmetic work on a caboose to use it for birthday parties!

Great to see that the Carter Brothers Society is going to put the missing metal parts back into a narrow gauge wooden caboose. And by all means loose that NWP logo and use an historic photo to paint the car.

Ted Miles

Our car uses a simple single spring, follower plates, and draft stops and straps…. The shipyard butchered the yokes, but our on site black smith is able to forge replacements. This car has taught us that there were at least two lengths of couplers/drawheads in use in CA narrow gauge… It seems that the cars built with link and pin drawheads were set up for a longer drawhead than those built new with knuckle couplers.

We had appropriate springs in our spare parts collection. Of course the car has its center sills at a different spacing, so we are cutting new follower plates. As a pre 1900 narrow gauge car the draft springs are not exactly standard issue...

Ted, the PLA in Niles Canyon is restoring NWP 30 as well. I will be sampling paint from that caboose as well as from ours while preparing the paint report. Our car does have some original paint, including the bright vermilion red used by North Shore.

Randy,

I have been in that car also. It does not have an interior; in fact if I recall, I was used for a while as their museum gift shop.

By the way, isn't your flat car a North Shore car? If you can do the caboose with a North Shore number you would have a nice pearing.

I will stop by one day soon to watch the progress.

Ted Miles

NWP 30 caboose at Niles Canyon Rwy is very much intact - a real museum piece! It does need new T&G siding, and is high on the NCRy restoration priority list.

The NCRy gift shop was originally in a much-modified AT&SF boxcar 193149:
(info from the PLA/NCRy equipment roster):
Built new by Haskell & Barker 1916-1917, Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway class Sk-N drop-bottom stock car; then ATSF #(Unknown); Rebuilt to ATSF Kitchen Car #(Unknown); AT&SF #MW 193149; Levin Metals, scrap dealer, Richmond, CA; Acquired by PLA in trade with Levin Metals, (Date unknown); Restored for use as Niles Canyon Railway gift shop and book store, Jan. 1989; In service, Brightside, CA. (Gift shop now uses part of the restored Sunol depot, with ATSF 193149 in reserve.)

- Doug Debs

Yes, our picnic car was owned by North Shore, as was the caboose.

The caboose has train number indicators and tall ladders added by the NWP... and we don't have a photo of the car as either a North Shore or a NPC car, so any restoration with a target date before 1913 or so would be a guess... so it will stay as a later NWP car. We have several members who really wanted the car to be painted for NPC... And really didn't want it painted in NWP (they of course abandoned the narrow gauge)

The flatcar was previously a South Pacific Coast car, but we don't know its SPC number, and it has modifications from its North Shore days, hence its restored as a North Shore car...

Before any restoration we do a study, tracking changes to the car and looking at what work would be needed for any option... then identify what year we are restoring the car to. To date none of our cars are restored to their as built configuration.