I have a few things to add here. In the early Conrail days, a certain RPO, converted to a crew car, had to be moved from NJ to MD. The owner of the car arranged for riders to go with the car, and made sure all the paperwork was in order. The car was placarded "DO NOT HUMP" and the same wording was in the paperwork.

So, the car gets to Allentown, and one of the guys realizes they were lined up for the hump. So they start yelling at everyone on the ground; the yard conductor, pin puller, etc. They wound up going over the hump, alone, and stopped the car with the handbrake about halfway down the hump. As I heard it, they tied up the yard for nearly an hour. I rode a later leg of this trip, on the old WM, and was impressed by the difference in attitude. Good crew, good train handling, nice ride-

The other story involves an RS-1, moving from PA to NJ in the early '90s, again on Conrail. The shortline that had been leasing the engine from me set it up for dead engine, and the local Conrail crew had no problem getting it to their terminal. But then the fun began.

Every crew that tried to pick up this unit had air problems; this went on for about two weeks. I got out there, eventually, and was met by an air brake machinist sent up from Enola. His first words were something to the effect of "I've never seen this system before". My reply was that it was 14-EL, and I bit my tongue NOT saying that it was in the 1925 'Cyc.

Every air valve in the cab was moved, set up wrong, and the rotary valves in the brake stand had been turned to funny positions with a screwdriver. So I set the thing up again, with my handles, got a good single car test, and took the handles out. We then mummified the brake stand with two rolls of duct tape, and wired all the other valves in position.

The initial problem, of course, was that all of the road crews expected the unit to charge up and release in a matter of a minute or so, not taking into consideration that the main reservoirs were much larger than a freight car, 69,000 cu. in. IIRC. So everyone became an expert and "adjusted" things in the cab. Once out of that terminal, the rest of the move went well.

There must have been something in the water at Allentown. Around 1980 a friend was moving a couple of cars and spent the night in Allentown. The Conrail mechanical department blue flagged the track the cars were on after the yardmaster assured all involved the cars would not move until the next afternoon and the track would not be needed for any other yard moves. My friend went to sleep in the car he was calling home. About 3:00 or 4:00 am he awoke to the sensation of a couple and shove move and before he could get out of his sleeping bag was kicked down the long yard track. Getting to his feet and trying to get to the leading end of the kicked cars, they suddenly slammed into the cut waiting for them throwing him to the floor. Getting back to his feet he came out of the car melting the air with his words. Needless to say the crew waiting for the kicked cars were stunned with somebody finally able to holler "Hey, there is somebody in there!". I am not sure anybody ever told him the whole story of how a blue flagged track suddenly had passenger cars being kicked down it but at least the cars were not damaged. Conrail went into cover up mode and the incident was soon forgotten. Few seem to remember that in the early days Conrail was mostly a diaster that sometimes moved.

Having moved cars over the Western Maryland in my younger days I have to agree with the professional way they handled such moves. I was treated like a guest of honor.

John Bohon

So right now, railroads are in a situation where they can't make much on historic equipment moves, and stand to lose a lot. That sounds like a no-win for them.

I wonder if there'd be a market for an insurance company that specialized in underwriting special moves by rail. They'd develop the specialized expertise in facilitating moves like this, making sure they didn't get messed up. (because if they were, they'd pay.) The presence of underwriting would make the move more palatable to railroads, and the presence of the man would be "insurer" instead of "equipment owner". In essence, this man is on the train to make/save you money.

I am not a lawyer, but was among other duties, the freight claims officer for a short line. Freight claim law predates railroads, and the founding of our Republic, and transporters (bailees) are liable for any damage to articles transported save by inherent vice of the products or Act of God. The railroads, to the extent they are not self-insured, already carry insurance against damage. No, what the Class I's fear is an accident that could be even partially blamed on the movement of historical equipment causing injury to others. Apportionment of fault and "deep pockets" could result in a minor injury resulting in a seven figure claim, with the Class I solely liable.

Add this to the plethora of regulations emanating from the FRA and the inflexible attitude of some of its employees, and you come up with a scenario that no amount of money paid in freight charges is worth. Perhaps a meeting of non-profits with Class I legal staffs could work out proposed legislation to smooth the legal ramifications.

I don't believe this is really a legal or liability issue - the railroads' reluctance to handle obsolete equipment on its own wheels stems primarily from the management headache of dealing with old components of unknown mechanical condition that can get in trouble, require special attention, and are not easily repaired in transit. If your equipment complies with contemporary interchange standards, they'll gladly move it, and have pricing and procedures in place to do so. Otherwise they want to see it on a flat car, which again they will gladly move if loaded in compliance with the rules and with clearance bureau approval. Some railroads may grant special dispensation based on your specific circumstances - and more power to you if you can arrange that - but shipping by flat car will likely become more common and learning those rules and procedures is not a bad idea.

Alan Maples
Everett Railroad

Wow! What a great topic to have discussed here, just when I'm getting ready to purchase a PV and ship it to Ohio. My inspection report indicates that I would need a new wheelset, 2 new springs, update the UC brakes, get rid of the cutout and angle cocks and the amoured hoses, board up windows and doors, and even then it may not pass a railroad inspection due do the fact it has rim stamped wheels. All this just to get it home. I am looking into the load it on a flat car or two and shipping it that way. The things it needs to make operable I can do once it is here. My inspector also told me that the costs of shipping a car on a flat car vs on it's own wheels is about 1/2 as much, so to me that would more than pay for the crane expense on both ends.
Just my two cents worth. Glad to be apart of the group. Newbie 1st time poster!!!
Rob Sundberg

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/winette

Rob,

Welcome to rypn. Take advantage of the search function to help you sort out useful information from some of the fluff. The archives are rich with advice and commentary that may help you.

Without getting into specifics of either your project or mine, I'll offer a general outline of the options we faced last fall moving a four axle heavyweight coach approximately 200 miles.

Coach shipped on own wheels: Railroad freight charges: $1,760. As comparison only, as the car was not acceptable for interchange.

Coach hauled over the road by trucking company: $9,000 to "dolly" the car, not including crane cost on either end, which would have added at least another $5,000 or so. Say $14,000+ total.

Coach loaded on flat car: Freight charges same as if moved on own wheels ($1,760) plus a little under $8,000 for cranes, flat bed trailer to haul the trucks, and in house labor to tie down on flat car. Round off to $10,000 total.

While shipping on own wheels is usually the most cost effective option - if it can move that way - keep in mind it is always possible you could face subsequent expense resulting from damage or mishandling in transit. We loaded on a flat car and the only issue was some additional blocking work required by the local inspector that another inspector (on the same railroad) had not insisted upon. Our guys stayed on the job until after dark in a blinding snow storm but got it done and the car moved without incident.

If going by highway, a rigging/trucking company will usually make or coordinate all necessary arrangements - one call does all, so to speak. Loading on a flat car you essentially have to be your own general contractor. And there is almost never a single point of contact at the railroad.

For flat car loading, I recommend you talk to some of the contractors who pick up derailments. They know how to handle railroad equipment and generally have good relations with the railroad mechanical department. The car will have to be separated from its trucks and tied securely to the flat car deck in accordance with the Open Top Loading Rules. Try to find the best loading spot to minimize crane time, as that will be a significant expense.

Best wishes and good luck with your project.

Alan Maples