Kelly Anderson's post about moving engine 37 to Strasburg has generated a thread of hard luck stories from others who have had difficulties moving old cars and engines. And a lot of opinions about the abilities of class one railroads to handle such moves with any degree of efficiency and safety.

I've moved all sorts of oddball cars, locomotives, and MofW equipment, and it's never a fun experience. I've moved equipment on its own wheels, on flat cars, by truck whole and by truck disassembled. Each subsequent move happens only after I've forgotten that last time I swore I would never do it again.

Other recent threads about locomotive alignment control couplers and older style roller bearings only show that the window is fast closing on any non-contemporary appliances out on the railroad.

I don't blame the class one's for their position. Injecting antiquated equipment into the railroad machine can only lead to problems, despite the best of intentions. No matter how high a tariff they charge, it wasn't worth it to them if your beloved coach or engine gets in trouble. The railroads have gotten smart enough to make mechanical department inspections mandatory before accepting old equipment for movement, but that is still no guarantee that train crews or operating supervisors will be able to give it any special attention, much less understand the peculiarities of antiques.

I've transported three coaches loaded on flat cars. All three moved without incident. We've learned the hard way about loading procedures and did the last one for a fraction of the cost of the first one. If you don't have experience shipping on flat cars, I'd suggest it's time to get acquainted with the Open Top Loading Rules. Perhaps a good topic for a TRAIN or ARM seminar.

Alan Maples
Everett Railroad

At the Railway Museum of Eastern Ontario, we have been moving equipment by road and flatcar for many years. Some of this equipment required a road move at both ends, with a long flatcar ride in between.

As we lost our rail connection years ago (lacking $3,000,000 + to replace bridges) we've had no choice but to get good at alternative transportation choices. I our collection, only our MLW S-3, CP #6591, two boxcars, and one tank car were able to roll directly into our museum. The tank car has K brakes and was interchanged three times on its 60 mile trip, and one of the boxcars has cast iron wheels and was interchanged twice on its 34 mile trip. The boxcar started its trip with a 15 mph restriction, but finished it with the restriction removed, travelling at the 45 mph track speed. Those days, sadly are over, and will never be back!

We're presently preparing to move a 1935 CN/OLOR/OCR snowplow from Ottawa's Walkley Yard to Smiths Falls. The car has a roller bearing truck on the rear, but hidden under the blade is a plain bearing truck. Time will tell whether she will be allowed to roll on her own wheels, and whether CP will agree to accept her at the interchange. If not, this will be a road move. Ottawa is a rat's nest of low wires, which will require removing the cupola and rooftop railings. That's something we'd rather avoid, but this would be an 18' tall load otherwise!

Other road moves we've been involved in: lot of freight cars and cabooses, eight heavyweight passenger cars, one 4-6-0, and a big two storey duplex CNoR section house.

Here are a few pics:

CN 4-6-0 # 1112:

http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo ... album--12/

I didn't have time to photograph the road portion of the move since I was busy working on it, but the album includes the flatcar move. I'm still looking for photos that other members may have taken while she was rolling through the streets of Smiths Falls.

Heavyweight passenger cars:

http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/sfrmeo8/

CP 23:

http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo ... oaded.html

Steve Hunter
RMEO

http://www.sfrmeo.ca/
http://elliottd.fotki.com/sfrmeo/

From a number of "moving experiences" on behalf of Pennsylvania Trolley Museum we can highly recommend Silk Road Transport of Arkport, NY for rolling stock moves. They seem to have the knack of making moves go smoothly, with the right combination of planning, equipment, and drivers. Granted, trolley cars aren't quite in the class with heavyweight passenger cars or steam locos, but they still present all the same problems for moves.

I learned very early on, the hard way, to NEVER EVER ship anything passenger ( car or loco.) by rail without a knowledgeable escort person ( or several on longer moves) as it proved to be the ONLY way of insuring a damage free move.

Can't even count the number of times the escort person made all the difference between a trouble free move and what could have been a disaster!!!

Ross Rowland

In 1987, we lost a CN medical car that had been converted from the Intercolonial Railway of Canada's 1913 Pullman sleeper "Shelburne". This was a wooden bodied car on a steel underframe. The sides had been steel plated but the wood siding appeared to be in good condition underneath.

Some "cowboy" yard crew sent the Shelburne down the Taschereau Yard (Montreal) hump, with unpleasant results. The entire vestibule, draft gear, and sill extensions were smashed in and pretty well flattened. Whatever happened to the rule that a passenger car must never be humped?

CN called us, saying that inspection in the shop had revealed serious damage and the car could not travel on its own wheels. When we told them the car's condition during OUR inspection, they pretty much dared us to provide photographic proof. Of course, of all the photos that had been taken of the several cars we were purchasing, none showed that particular vestibule on the Shelburne.

This was the end of a fine car in excellent condition. While we now wish we'd thrown the car on a flatcar and brought her home anyway, the cost was far beyond our means at the time. We reluctantly released her for scrap.

An escort wasn't really called for on this move, since it was supposed to be moving from a storage track, straight to the shop for COTS in preparation for the trip. CN isn't friendly to the idea of escorts riding cars in their freights anyway, for understandable reasons.

Ross's advice is right on the mark here. Ask, at least, when you arrange transportation of a passenger car or locomotive. If it's not allowed, try to talk to as many local officials and other railroaders as possible in advance of the move, and pray during the move!

Steve Hunter
RMEO

"I learned very early on, the hard way, to NEVER EVER ship anything passenger ( car or loco.) by rail without a knowledgeable escort person ( or several on longer moves) as it proved to be the ONLY way of insuring a damage free move.

Can't even count the number of times the escort person made all the difference between a trouble free move and what could have been a disaster!!!

Ross Rowland"

Further to Steve Hunters experience I probably should have elaborated a bit more in my posting.

We will NOT ship anything pssgr. (car or loco.) by rail unless the carriers involved agree to the piece(s) being accompanied by a QUALIFIED escort officer. We only send experienced credentialed individuals in those roles.

We also equip them with all the tools they'll need to properly do the job ( radios with back up batteries, blue flags, plenty of food,water,sleeping cots and other living necessities, comprehensive list of local contact phone #'s for enroute trainmasters, yardmasters etc.,) and they stay with the move 24/7 until it arrives safely at destination.

They also carry a letter stating that they have the authority to make any/all operating decisions which in their best judgement are required for the safe handling of the equipment in question.

We have found that generally the Class 1's welcome having a qualified person on board to shepherd these moves, as they recognize that it greatly decreases the chances of something going wrong!!

Ross Rowland

Excellent idea. Good topic.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of money does it cost to move a heavyweight coach, say ... 10 miles?

Is it significantly cheaper per vehicle to move several vehicles at the same time?

So just what does it take to be designated "QUALIFIED escort officer"?

Greg

Our definition of a qualified escort officer is someone who is currently NORAC qualified as either a Conductor or Loco. Engineer and in addition has had some mechanical shop experience.

The person must also have reasonable people skills as there are often situations where some diplomacy is important.

As posted above we've found that the presence of an escort officer makes all the difference between a smooth move and a potential disaster!!

It should be noted that the presence of escort personnel accompanying a shipment generally requires approval of a senior transportation officer. Railroads do not want non-employees aboard trains and most have specific prohibitions that govern. Norfolk Southern's rate publication for moving locomotives and passenger cars specifically states "Shipper representative or observer may not accompany shipment."

If you want a representative to accompany or monitor a shipment while in transit, be sure to work out those arrangements well in advance with the rail carrier.

Alan Maples

Big problem since the demise of cabooses. It used to be that the "messenger" could ride the caboose, and have a reasonable expectation of being near what he was escorting, since it would likely be "haul in rear of train".

Stories I've heard from guys who did this during the sixties and seventies:

Pulling the pin on a North Shore interurban car when the thunder of a bad slack run could be heard coming down the starting train; the conductor was pissed, but likely not as much as if they would have yanked the radial drawbar out of the interurban.

The late Dave Shore was in the caboose when the Frisco 1630 (Russian Decapod) took a lurch for the field. "Do you have any self guarding frogs in this yard?" he asked. "What's a self guarding frog?" was the conductor's reply, as the engine took a second mighty lurch. After getting the train stopped, they found they'd broken both frogs. No damage to the engine, but there were about six more self guarding frogs on the route the train was taking. The yard switcher put things right.

Now days, the guys who do this drive, and carry at least a scanner, along with tools, lube, and hotbox sticks. Their main function is to be at each yard where the equipment is going to be switched, to anticipate problems, and hopefully head them off. That's where the diplomacy comes in.

Some railroads' tariffs have the extra charges for hauling and even furnishing the caboose to hold the guard who can't fit in the engine.

As a point of information, NS no longer uses NORAC, opting for their own rule book. Conrail shared assets still uses NORAC, however. I'm interested though in this "letter of authority". Does the RR issue that? Because the conductor, dispatcher, TM, RFE, yardmaster, etc. are the ones ultimately responsible for the safe movement of a train - and not an escort.

Some railroads have departments and officials in charge of soliciting, handling, regulating, and pricing the transportation of oversize, overweight, and other hard to handle loads, that may also require messengers or guards to accompany them. Of course, the charges they propose may be very high, but they might also remove some of the responsibility for an overall decision from the local car inspector.