Hello,

Per Ross's comments on the Tornado videos. It looks like she is in paint now.

Per the URL as follows, wow, I think the Londoners likered her! This would be equal to having main line steam at Grand Central here......amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMN3Qq6BpJI&feature=related

I had the opportunity to travel through Kings Cross on my only visit to the UK. When I explained my travel plans to my daughter, she got excited about its reference in Harry Potter ......and yes, they do have a platform 9-3/4.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n5-4dkDNZRE/R4uZ_Ne3JPI/AAAAAAAAABE/TSH_L8Ce3mg/S269/Platform%2B9%2Band%2Bthree%2Bquarters.JPG

Platform 9-3/4 is not in the main train shed, its off to the side in the adjoining shed, I believe with only 2 tracks. While at platform 9-3/4, for maybe 15 minutes, at least 3 people had their pictures take at the baggage cart.

Regards,

Randy

A couple of comments

The Tornado (named as such after the RAF jet fighter of the same name that served in the first gulf war) was at first expected to be ready by year 2000....

Bill Gates. To the best of my knowledge is a rail fan. I'm surprised Ross did not comment on the question as Mr. Gates was on the bidders list when the 614 was offered for sale at Auction years back.

A few miles north of Seattle there is a 6 mile long private, 15" gauge railway with two steam locos. A Pacific and a 4-4-0 "American". The operation is actually owned by one of the McCaw brothers of the original "Cellular One" cell phone business. Mr. Gates is known to attend from time to time.

TH

Isn't there still a Niagara around? In Indiana? At one point I understand that Conrail seriously contemplated starting a steam program and this was the locomotive they were thinking of.

The NYC engine is in Elkhart, Ind. It's a Mohawk (4-8-2 in NYC-speak), 3001, if I recall. And it exists only because it was bought in 1955 by the Texas & Pacific to replace a T&P 2-10-4 scrapped after a display in Dallas. The Elkhart group traded an Amtrak GG1 for the Mohawk in the mid-1980s, and brought the 3001 back to NYC territory. CR did survey the loco in the late 1980s for a steam program, but the winds shifted.... This is an L-3 Mohawk, used as a dual-service engine. And it served time on Boston & Albany passenger trains after the war, right up until the end of B&A steam in 1951.

No Niagaras, no Hudsons, two Mohawks (2933 at St Louis, a freight L-2, and the Elkhart engine). 3 or 4 0-6-0s, 999 in Chicago. That's it for NYC steam.

Howard P.

Not trying to be a pain, but having just submitted a National Register application for NYC 0-6-0 #6894 noting that it is one of two NYC 0-6-0 survivors, I really don't want anyone thinking that there are 3 or 4 0-6-0's out there (unless you know of one or two that the rest of us don't know about).

I think the generally accepted list of existing NYC steam is:

#6894 B-10w 0-6-0 Alco Pittsb 1912 Connersville IN
#6721 B-11k 0-6-0 Alco Schen 1913 Utica NY
#999 C-14a 4-4-0 W Albany 1893 Chicago IL
#2976 G-6k 2-8-0 Alco Brooks 1910 Fairview OK
#5780 G-43a 2-8-0 Alco Brooks 1901 Chamberlain Lake ME
#8085 I-80a 4-4-2 Alco Schen 1902 Dearborn MI
#2933 L-2D 4-8-2 Alco Schen 1929 St Louis MO
#3001 L-3A 4-8-2 Alco Schen 1940 Elkhart IN

B&A #39 4-4-0 B&A 1876 St Louis MO
IHB #15 4-6-0 Schen 1897 Chamberlain Lake ME
P&LE #9153 F-102 4-6-0 Schen 1896 Delson QUE
DSI #5 0-4-0T Vulcan 1923 Henrietta NY

And if you want to count it:
Dewitt Clinton (replica) 0-4-0 West Point 1831 Dearborn MI

Now of course we could line out the B&A, IHB, P&LE, and DSI engines as not being NYC directly. Of course some think the Pioneer 4-2-0 in Chicago is U & S #7 and should be added to the list.

Sorry, just thought this needed to be added.

David Farlow
Whitewater Valley Railroad

It's always fun to daydream but the hard truth is that 611, 1522, 2100, and 614 are all sitting around in more or less operable shape with no place to go. Building a new hudson or northern will just add to the list of engines with no place to run.

If you had something like a 4-6-0 or 2-6-2 that could be loaded onto a flatcar with ease and transported along with a decent trainset one could barnstorm the country and run a countless number of trips on shortlines. The train could include about 6 coaches, tool and support cars, bunk cars, office car, and flat car with steamer. It could be run around the country like a circus train. The whole thing would be a circus but it could probably work.

What if the group that decides to build a steamer here in the US goes to the class 1 railroads and ask them, "What must our locomotive have so we may run it on your railroad?"

$500 million in liability insurance.

Is the same insurance required if it was a couple of E units?

I have been reading this threat from my side of the pond with interest, and while I am not qualified to comment about the advisability of building a big mainline steam locomotive for use in the USA, I would like to add a few comments.

Richard Jenkins is quite right, Tornado happened because a small group of people had the courage and audacity to build it. Many people thought them mad, and belived it was impossible. It took a little longer than the 3 to 4 years that it was originally envisaged, and it cost more than first thought. However the project acquired, quite early some very good engineers, and a world class publicity and fun raising organisation. See http://www.a1steam.com/.

Unfortunately I was unable to go and watch Tornado, on her run to London on Saturday, although I know a number of people who did. They together with reports on the internet, report large crowds, the majority non railway enthusiasts. There is much footage on youtube, the best I think is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDNTDTVEpJA&feature=related. This shows two locomotives, one new, one old, one pulling and one pushing. This is British main line steam at its best, and if this does not win hearts and minds, nothing will. After being named by The Prince of Wales in York next week, she will be back in London in April, and hopefully I will be able to see Tornado (with nameplates) then.

I can confirm that there is NO LOTTERY MONEY IN TORNADO. The Heritage Lottery Fund, will not fund new projects like this, so all the £3,000,000 required has been raised either by donations or by the sale of Bearer Bonds, which need to be repaid (with 4% interest) in about 3-4 years time.

Building a new steam locomotive from scratch is only another step in British Railway Preservation. A number of replica early locomotives have been built. The Great Western Railway “Saint” and “Grange”, the London Brighton & South Coast Railway, Brighton Atlantic, and the British Railways standard class 2 tank, all classes which have been extinct for many years, are being reconstructed, using existing bits as well as some new construction. Whole railways have also been created from scratch, on derelict trackbeds, and many railways extended. Shacks that were once railway carriages, again carry passengers, and equipment has been repatriated or recovered from all corners of the globe. Remember ANYTHING CAN BE DONE IF YOU WANT TO, and don’t take NO for an answer.

Lastly, platform 9¾ at Kings Cross. The platforms at King’s Cross have been numbered right to left (i.e. east to west) as you look north from the buffer stops, since 1921. However originally there was no number 7, 8 or 9, so that the left hand side platform was number 10, and the shorter subarban platforms were numbered from 11 upwards. In recent (last forty) years the platforms have been renumbered so that platform 10 becomes platform 8. Therefore historically platform 9¾ lies in the main train shed. When filming Harry Potter at Kings Cross, one of the main line platforms has always been used.

William Shelford
England

The "uncooperative Class I" problem is easily solved. Site in Michigan, where the Class I's don't control all the mainlines.

Building whole railways from scratch, on disused track beds--that's something we have done in the US. I think the prize for steam/diesel line rebuilding goes to the Niles Canyon/PLA group, and in the electric field (so to speak), Illinois Ry. Museum (which also runs diesel and steam) and Seashore Trolley Museum.
There are several examples of trolley cars restored from "chicken coop" (body only) status, and the Nevada State museum in Carson City has brought a McKeen motor car back from its previous existence as a plumbing shop.

Mr. Shelford,

This comment is confusing

"There is much footage on youtube, the best I think is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDNTDTVE ... re=related. This shows two locomotives, one new, one old, one pulling and one pushing. This is British main line steam at its best."

Did you post the correct clip?

Anyhow, while looking at it, I spotted this one of the A4 class 60007 running on the main line into Kings Cross with footplate footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY87_flB ... re=related

I've ridden on, fired many and even driven a few steam locos but nothing even on the same planet as this....this clip to me epitomizes main line steam anywhere.

It also serves to show just how routine main line steam is in the UK.....almost no one on the platforms upon arrival.

Regards,

TH

Looks like the bottom line here is related to the recent
posting on the Alco demostrator shell. It is about
MONEY and manpower. The legwork must be done
(the nonprofit filing just a start) but even an
army of geniuses cannot get to the door without
MONEY.
I think we are all in agreement with this. The A1
fellows had a system to attract and collect money.
And dont forget, they had some very generous and
committed contractors, actually sponsers, and I
wonder if the generous deals would still be available
today.
Hats to off the brits and I m afraid I just believe that
the critical mass just doesnt exist here in the USA
at this time.

In reply



Yes I did post the correct clip, this is I think the best of last weekends clips of Tornado, which sum up what took place. We see Tornado pass with her 13 coach train (max speed 75 mph), followed by a Great North Eastern Railway express (max speed 140 mph), which is powered by an electric locomotive pushing from the rear (these nearly always run in push/pull mode with the locomotive at the north end, to save the passengers from having to walk past it at Kings Cross). I leave it to you to decide which (the steam or the electric) locomotive is the older.

Regards,

William Shelford