Pennsylvania Trolley Museum owns two diesels that are missing plates. If you know who has either of the following, please let me know:

H. K. Porter 7384, our 43 ton B-B centercab, Pennsylvania Transformer Co 1311, from the Canonsburg, PA plant.

GE 31789, our recently acquired 25 ton GE, most recently (2001) used at Cargill, Inc. at Pier 122 in Philadelphia.

Thanks for any tips,
Dave Hamley for PTM.

None of the motive power at the Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum in North Judson, Indiana has builder's plates. And I think that would be the case for most museum motive power. In HVRM's case however, we know that builders plates still exist for the following two pieces:

1. General Electric 95-ton end cab diesel s/n 31517 dated 5/52. This unit was donated by Acme Steel (Interlake) and the builders plates were on the unit up until the time it was on the old B&O (CSX) interchange track at Wellsboro, Indiana. Upon arrival at the museum two days later, the builders plates had been removed. One of our younger members told us that he knew who had "liberated" the plates. For some reason, our Board of Directors at the time, decided not to pursue trying to get the plates back. The young member who knew who had the plates has not been active at the museum now for a number of years and with his leaving, info as to where the plates are located has departed with him.

2. ALCO Chesapeake & Ohio 2-8-4 Kanawha type s/n 75202 dated 7/47. A good number of years ago these plates, which were apparently legally acquired by the owner through purchase, were offered to the museum. The price was rather high and the museum decided not to spend their limited available funds at the time, on acquiring them.

Les

The builder's plate and cast CPR class plate are missing from Canadian Pacific MLW S-3 # 6591 at the Smiths Falls Railway Museum of Eastern Ontario.

6591's builder's number is 82177, dated 7/1957.

These plates were stolen from 6591 in 1983, while she was securely stored in CP's Smiths Falls roundhouse, awaiting transfer to SFRMEO. The shop crew allowed a "railfan" from the Toronto area to photograph the locomotives in the roundhouse. Before they knew what happened, the plates were gone from 6591 and other (in service) locomotives, and the "railfan" was gone. The shop guys were angry enough about the theft from CP's engines, but were livid that the museum's locomotive was attacked.

So far, 6591's plates have not surfaced, but hopefully they will be found at some point in the future. If they do, replicas will be installed!

Steve Hunter
SFRMEO

http://www.sfrmeo.ca/
http://public.fotki.com/elliottd/sfrmeo/

It's interesting how theft can be rationalized by individuals who have heard, all their lives, "Stealing is wrong", "Put that back, it doesn't belong to you", "You must pay for what you acquire". The rational might be, "Heck, they were going to go to scrap anyway!" or "Nobody appreciates it where it is right now", or even "I'll hang onto them until I know the locomotive is safe, then I'll return them".

That being said, and in no defense of theft, I can cite the CNJ signal maintainers tossing semaphore blades down the line side river banks, Canadian National gondolas being filled with station debris, including signs and signals, and Canadian Pacific track speeders being tossed in public landfills. All of these, I've witnessed. This does not speak to the theft from museum and park locomotives, but it shows how and why people often do what they do.

When the Long Island Rail Road replaced its iron Keystone Whistle posts, I dropped a word to my father, who was head of MOW. Those that were salvageable were donated to the local NRHS chapter (of which I was a member) as a goodwill gesture, preserving literally hundreds of them. Such intervention might preserve some PRR position lights today.

I am NOT justifying theft, simply raising the Devil's rationale.

I own a PRR position 8 lights part of it is mounted in my front yard it came from the PRR's Schuylkill Branch. The location of where the light came from was Norristown some where along the line. I saw they were taking down the old lights and scrapping them, I ask the head guy if I could take that one , that I was a locale historian. He said sure. They even loaded it in the back of my Dodge truck.

Len.

All 3 of the Baldwin Locomotives at the Southern Forest Heritage museum have had their builders and number plates "saved" by clandestine removal by persons unknown.
Based on what photographic records we have, this happened in the late 1970's or early 1980's when the locomotives future was very much in doubt. We have heard that one of the builders plates was offered on Ebay about 10 years ago, but nothing else is known of the plates. We are looking for the following plates:

Meridian #202 C/N 40862 1913
Crowell #400 C/N 51175 1919
Red River and Gulf #106 C/N 57203 1923

If there is anyone out there that has knowlege of the location of these plates, pleass reply to me by PM.

Was that so that they could be retrieved later?

In my day job we have over 30 locomotives, none with builders plates! Of all the dozen or so lease units we've maintained I've only seen one builders plate. Of the 5 locomotives the Lake Shore Railway Association owns or leases, we only sorta have one of the 2. That's NKP 384/W&LE 3984 one of the former members who was supposed to be "heading up the restoration" (15 years ago)has it nailed to the wall in his barn and won't give it up.

Local legend in the Wilmington, DE area is that not a single PRR GG1 builder's plate survived to the Penn Central era on the locomotives. The best of these stories is that of a plate which was given to a railfan minister by a member of his "flock"..... and that plate is still in his railfan son's hands nearly 50 years later.

There are numerous legends of theft by rail employees. The best I heard of was an employee of the Enola, Pa. yard that was found to have 1) an extra-large lunch bucket and 2) a cold chisel in his back pocket.

Earlier on this board, we were alerted to the plates from two of the preserved Reading FP7's that were put on eBay, apparently by the semi-notorious railfan employee who pinched them hours before the end of the Reading................ anybody know what the final outcome of THAT case was?

Maybe there is a need for an online database of builders plates. When one is offered for sale it's numbers can be checked against the database.

The Halton County Radial Ry. has two electric locomotives which were missing plates long before we acquired them.

-BLW-WH 42475 plate from class D, 1500V steeplecab, Lake Erie & Northern 335 / Cornwall St. Ry. 16.
This unit had headlights, BLW flat mount swing bell, horns, control handles removed by CN prior to sale to us. Copper thieves made off with bus bars, contact tips and some power wiring as well. We have managed trade for parts required to restore the loco in the future, no bell yet, though.

-GE 5001 plate from standard 60 ton, 1500V boxcab, London & Port Stanley L-2
Headlights, bell, whistles, control handles, 1 compressor armature, 1, C-93 controller main drum, etc. were removed before we acquired the unit. Compressor arm., one headlight have been acquired since, still looking for the rest, especially the C-93 drum.

Gord McOuat
HCRR / OERHA

The plates from Roanoke Chapter NRHS's 0-6-0, which is stored off site by VMT, disappeared within the last 6 months. They are Baldwin, dated 1924, construction # 57092.