So the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic will convert two Alco locomotives to electric power. They even put out a press relief under Facebook group saying that they're going to convert the locomotives to run off "electric engines" apparently they don't understand how there locomotives work.

I just saw a piece on local Cleveland TV news about this. I didn't get the exact price they were quoting - either $300K or $3 million, probably $3 million - to turn the two oldest FPAs (6771 and 6777) into battery-electrics. So, they want to destroy what the fans value about them - being smoky, chugging ALCo locos, and the general public couldn't care less about. Of course the CVSR has always HATED the fans ("a bunch of freeloaders who never buy a ticket, and just want to take pictures"), and don't know how to run a railroad, and sabotage or fire every serious railroader who tries to volunteer or go to work for them, because they don't want professionals to know just how incompetent they really are. The FRA has had about enough of their willful ignorance and is going to drop the hammer on them soon anyway. They were offered a free CSX GP40/GP30 slug set several years ago, and turned it down because they were "an ALCo road", then end up wasting tons of money renting LTEX junk EMDs - and damaging them - because they can't keep their 70 y/o ALCos running. They spent hundreds of thousands of $$ to re-engine C420 #365 as a "green engine", and it never ran right after that. The only one running worth anything is the Grand Canyon castoff they got last year (6773) - yeah, GC's "trash" is better than their prized ALCo cabs. This is an operation that desperately needs leadership that actually knows how to run a railroad and not just apply for grants or fund raise from the donor community.

If CVSR wants to convert Alco cab units to battery power, there are (or were) several on Napa Valley Wine Train that had holes cut in their blocks, in exchange for money from California for new eco units, that would make good donors. My understanding is that part of the agreement is that NVWT cannot allow any other entity to re-power them with diesel engines, either.

After talking to a source more familiar with the situation, a couple of corrections. The ALCos involved in this proposed conversion are 6777 and 800 (the one painted into a B&O scheme). Also, a few years ago, several engine service people who knew that CSX was offering retired slug sets for donation, suggested to management that they put in for a set. Management answered that those units were not compatible with the long-term planning for the operation. They had asked for a study slanted to show that staying all-ALCo and standardizing on one type of parts and maintenance was the way to go, even though those parts and the expertise in them were increasingly hard to find, and everyone has parts for 645 prime movers and second generation EMDs. Outside of those corrections, I stand by the rest of my opinion.

I'd go after some of the hulks out there in the wilds for the conversions and not butcher complete Alcos. Didn't the 800 get a rebuild a while back?

This is a silly post, with a silly title.

Unless you want to also accuse the Grand Canyon of the same: https://www.thetrain.com/zero-emission-train/



Just admit it, my dudes, the CVSR is your convenient, friendly, neighborhood punching bag.

Neither CVSR nor the Canyon are museums or preservation-first tourist railroad operations. Preservation occurs because of what they do, but it is not the primary driver.





These are railroads with a very specific, tourist/passenger-focused mission that eschews closely to what we do in more specific parts of our industry, but painting them with a broad brush or such ridiculous subject lines is silly.

The ALCOs that run at CVSR sure as hell aren't B&O. And the engines at Grand Canyon are not Santa Fe. None of these units has any historical connection to the places that they run, unless of course, you count the last 20-30 years. The same can largely be said about the majority of the passenger equipment.

While the railroad could have very well done a much better job articulating the mechanical and electrical challenges inherent with operating those particular locomotives and the shortage of parts and supplies, this crowd can certainly do better digesting and reacting to the information.

Amen and amen.

Just admit it, my dudes, the CVSR is your convenient, friendly, neighborhood punching bag.

Neither CVSR nor the Canyon are museums or preservation-first tourist railroad operations. Preservation occurs because of what they do, but it is not the primary driver.

[quote]Mission

Our mission is to provide educational, recreational and heritage scenic railroad experiences and to provide alternative transportation to and within Cuyahoga Valley National Park and the Ohio & Erie Canalway.
/quote] thanks for proving my point, the Grand canyon railroad is the for-profit entity and they make sure to get their information right. Maybe you don't understand how locomotives work either, so let me explain it to you please locomotives are already electrically powered by four traction motors or "electrical engines" these motors get their electricity from an onboard diesel generator. The Grand canyon railway said they were going to replace their diesel generator with battery power instead. These Jokers said they were going to put an "electric engine" in a locomotive it's already driven by "electric engines" when you're an educational organization or just a railroad in general it should be pretty important to know how your equipment works.

I, for one, wasn't bashing, just suggesting considering the relative rarity of FAs if they're wanting to keep the "look" of an Alco FA unit.

Sorry I haven't been able to get back into the comments until now. I have been familiar with the operations of the CVL/CVSR since it began in 1975, and know how their attitudes and practices developed over 50 years. It's not sour grapes. Current management does not know how to run a tourist railroad at a basic level. They are PR and fundraising experts, not operating people. And when I say current I mean for over 10 years.

If we're going to argue semantics, let's point out that the press release didn't come from CVSR. It came from the Ohio EPA as the grantor.

You are not the target audience for this press release. Additionally, you're misquoting it. The Ohio EPA says they are re-powering it. That's a very intentional term that is used frequently in this industry.

I have to laugh at the policing of a watered-down press release from a state agency from the very same person who is also calling it a "press relief" in the same complaint.



Not a single person in management is from the prior administration or has been there more longer than three years. The last manager from the prior administration left last spring. Several of the current folks are actually from Class I railroads. Not an apples-to-apples comparison for tourist railroading, but a universe away from not being "operating people."

CVSR as an institution is not without its well-earned prejudices, but I stand by my original comment. This thread isn't about railroad preservation and doesn't even link the original press release for context: https://epa.ohio.gov/about/media-center ... ocomotives

Unfortunately in this age of waning journalism, everyone just repurposes the same press release, so even Trains Magazine hasn't been able to follow up for an actual in-depth story yet: https://www.trains.com/trn/railroads/he ... ric-power/

I've been staying out of this thread for the same reasons brought up by Brother Lynch: The stupidity involved. (If you can't spell "press release," or distinguish between "there" and "their," I'm probably not interested in engaging with you.)

Here is relevant information that should be considered in the discussion about repowering motive power for the CVSR:
The CVSR executed a purchase agreement for the MLW fleet and related parts at the Grand Canyon Railway in 2024, and had two delivered to them:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48077

Since then, I've been told by "those in the know" that the remainder of the acquisition/purchase from the GCRY has been canceled.
The supposition by one of my sources was "I think they finally figured out how hard it actually is to keep Alcos running in the 2020's."
I have also heard some mutterings about "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing up there [in Ohio]." The auxiliary evidence offered--turnover in operations and management personnel, the lawsuit by LTEX over loco condition after lease of two locos, etc.--lend some anecdotal support to that proposition.

The apparent truth here is that the CVSR needs operable motive power to keep trains running, just like any other operation out there--Steamtown, Grand Canyon, Napa Valley Wine Train, Wilmington & Western, Nevada Northern, Branson Scenic, whoever. CVSR is NOT the Delaware-Lackawanna, the Apache, or the Arkansas & Missouri. They are not Alco fetishists. They need motive power--period.

I may disagree with the subsidization of EVs of all types by government--I think ultimately it may go down in the annals of government history as one of the worst "pork-barrel" ideas of all time, and the current "crash" in EV sales once subsidies ended is indicative of that. But, as with the earlier ISTEA and TEA-21 "pork barrels," it apparently is better to line up at the trough that you had nothing to do with setting up than to claim the moral high road and refuse to participate.

If true, that's a good point. There are still parts & smarts galore available for 2nd generation geeps.

While current senior management has changed over the years, the DNA of the operation and it's ongoing faults and prejudices can be directly traced back to it's beginning attitudes with the people in the Western Reserve Historical Society and Midwest Chapter, NRHS who started it in the 1970s. I knew them. They hated the fans and passed that prejudice down to future generations of management. Midwest drove lots of good people away over the years and ended up drying up and blowing away over a decade ago as a result.