All of this 611 talk I've seen lately has had me wondering what passenger cars from the Powhatan Arrow train set and so on still survive today? I'm not 100% sure if the two observations survive after being shipped to Saudi Arabia. If anyone has any info, chime in please! But from the little information I've gathered, it looks like these cars survive.

P1 coach
N&W 501 (NS 28)

P2 coach
N&W 512 (Roanoke Chapter)

P3 coach
531 (TVRM)
532 (NS 29)
534 (Roanoke private group)
536 (GSMR)
537 (Roanoke Chapter)
538? (Roanoke Chapter)
539 (Watauga Valley)
540 (TVRM)

Diners
491 (NS 12)
492 (CSRR Hattie Evans)
493 (NS 18)
494 (NS 19)

Observations
581?
582?

Feel free to correct anything or add any info, please. Thanks

It has been impossible to verify with dealings with the Saudis, but one car was reportedly scrapped in the 1980s, the other seemed to exist in storage for a rail museum there about 10-15 years ago from Google map views, but is no longer visible.

On the diners,
N&W 491, was retired in 1973, then rebuilt to dormitory car No. 450, so no longer a diner
N&W 492, was retired in 1971, sold off to an equipment dealer, and subsequently sold to a restaurant in Lewiston, Maine with two N&W heavyweight coaches, after the restaurant closed in the 1980s, it later went to Conway Scenic
N&W 493, was retired in July 1971, and sold to Amtrak, then was involved in a wreck at Dyersburg, TN, and later sold to Lake Shore NRHS, who sold it back to NS in 1983 and it was restored to a working diner once again.
N&W 494 is the only D1 diner that remained a diner and with N&W, now NS its entire career.
Best
Ken Miller

Some great answers here!

I wonder how much other N&W equipment is still around.

I don't know if any Pocahontas equipment is still with us; that was a short consist, not too much in it, and it's possible nothing survives.

I understand at least one heavyweight baggage car, looking like a PRR B60, is still around and in good condition. I would assume at least some heavyweight coaches are still around, and maybe some sleepers, too.

The N&W, as legendary as it was, was not a huge passenger carrier. I doubt there is that much around for that reason, but it would be nice to know what is there.

The Catskill Mountain Railroad of Kingston, NY presently rosters former N&W PM coach 1727 as part of their active fleet. More information on the specific history of this car can be found on their website. However, they claim that it was once used on both the Powhatan Arrow and Pocahontas trains, and ran behind NW 611 pre excursion career.

They came into possession of this car several years back, acquiring it from a private collector who had it stored in North Creek, NY on the old D&H Adirondack branch.

I recall seeing a Facebook group for N&W coach 534 around the mid 2010’s, supposedly it was based in Roanoke.

535 is also apparently on the Ontario northland.

The 534 is privately owned in Roanoke, it had a door cut into the side while it was at a scrap yard.

Ontario Northland acquired several N&W cars, from my notes:
ON 830 former 1725
ON 831 former 1726
ON 832 former 1727
ON 833 former 1728
ON 834 ???
ON 835 former 1731
ON 836 former 1733
ON 840 former 511
ON 841 former 532
On 842 former 535

To the best of my knowledge, all have been scrapped in recent years.
Best
Ken Miller

Just to add to my previous comments. Generally speaking, when one is referring to the Powhatan Arrow equipment, they are referring to the 1949 built train. Those cars, 2 Class P1 coaches (501-502), 2 class P2 coaches (511-512) and 10 class P3 coaches (531-540) plus four diners (491-494) and 2 round-end tavern-lounge-observation cars (581-582) are, generally speaking relatively well preserved.

However, the Arrow was introduced in April 1946, and because there were so many cars on order from Pullman and Budd, N&W's small order of 20 cars kind of was low on the list, so the N&W did what N&W did best, have their Roanoke Shops refurbish equipment for the new train. Which included multiple Pm coaches (1700 series cars) as well as heavyweight De-class diners.

Once the new equipment arrived in November and early December 1949, those cars became the two Arrow trains, and the 1700 series cars and heavyweight diners went into service in the Pocahontas and Cavalier for the most part.

Best
Ken Miller

Of the 15 PM Coaches 1720 to 1734 at least 5 survive today.

Coach 1727, formerly Ontario Northland 832, is on the Catskill Mountain Railroad.

Coaches 1721 and 1730 are owned by the town of Hurlock Maryland and are used annually on their Eastern Seaboard Express.

https://choosedorchester.org/hurlock/

https://www.hurlock-md.gov/index.php

https://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... id=3509824

Coach 1723 is stored in Crewe, Virginia at the Crewe Railroad Museum:

https://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... id=4028316

Coach 1732 now lettered 1007 is part of the Wakarusa Historical Society Exhibit and is under a shed there:

https://www.angelfire.com/oh4/tk173/rrmuseums.html

Remaining Coaches:

1720, 1722, and 1734 were renumbered to 1001, 1003 and 1008 and donated to the Gold Coast Railway Museum in 1983. No further information. Likely destroyed during hurricane Andrew in 1992.

1724 was renumbered 1005 and sold to the Southside Virgina Railroad Society in Petersburg, VA in 1983. This organization no longer exists. No further information.

Coaches 1725, 1726, 1727, 1728, 1729, 1731 and 1733 were sold to the Ontario Northern and renumbered 830, 831, 832, 833, 834, 835 and 836, respectively. They can be seen on the deadline in these undated photos:

https://www.onrhts.org/More-Galleries/P ... -k7ZfhFw/A

https://www.onrhts.org/More-Galleries/P ... qB65cVP/XL

https://www.onrhts.org/More-Galleries/P ... -JgdsT2k/A

https://www.onrhts.org/More-Galleries/P ... -cD6Mtjj/A

831 is shown in Cochrane, Ontario in 2008:

https://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cg ... 31_2&o=ont

Only the 1727/832 is known to have been saved when it was sold in 2004 to a private collector and bought by the CMRR in 2014.

1720-1724, 1730, 1732 and 1734 were converted to commuter coaches in 1970 and are not in their original configurations. They were renumbered 1001-1008 and were used in Chicago for Commuter service for several years after they left long-distance service:

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/ros7cars.html

The CMRR's 1727/832 was in its original configuration when bought by the CMRR in 2014 and presumably the other Ontario Northland cars are still in that configuration if they still exist.

So 5 of 15 can still be found. Anyone have any idea about the rest?

EH

The Tidewater chapter of the NRHS as far as i know has two N & W baggage cars at the Railroad Museum of Virginia (currently closed) in Portsmouth, Va. They are No's 1401 and 1424. There is also a heavyweight diner in Blue lettered for N & W but it may have been a Wabash or NKP car. I can't see the numbers in photos but i know its still intact as a diner. I was in it over 20 years ago when it was at Little Creek. I believe it had served as a diner for N & W and NS work service.