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Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
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Author:  LarryIngold [ Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
The Willamette c/n 7 at Fort Missoula, MT that we are restoring has a Moon Manfacturing of Chicago, Il dynamo or as Moon called it a "Turbo Generator". It has an output of 110V DC. Which is interesting as in 1923 I would think the standard would most likely be 32 V in a logging locomotive. Also grabbing on to the knife switches in the cab could prove to be interesting. An internet search shows very little information on Moon. Does anyone know of any information or manuals on these. It is complete and only suffering from cobwebs and dust so far.

Thanks,

Larry
Author:  PMC [ Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
It looks like their main business was in the "oil and gas trade" towards the end of the steam era as this original set of ads from the 1940s and 1950s demonstrates:
https://vintageadsandbooks.com/moon-mfg ... -gen-zo869
https://www.ebluejay.com/ads/item/8089084

Here is a 110v model for sale on a farm equipment website, could they have been used in steam threshing machines?: https://www.proxibid.com/Farm-Machinery ... n/51174326

If you go down in this thread, https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/ ... or.212474/

it turns out that one is in the "Sanfilippo collection outside of Chicago", they may know something about them.
http://www.sanfilippofoundation.org/san ... ction.html

Go down further, it says that "Moon turbo-gen sets were sold by National Supply and a few others for oil well derrick lighting purposes. A quick test is to connect a 12v battery two any two adjacent brushes. If it is electrically good it will spin as a motor. Don't connect to the output leads. They will run on on air but it takes a lot and you will not be able to run very long. Standard 110/120v incandescent light bulbs will work. LED and fluorescent will not unless designed for DC."

I use duckduckgo as my search engine, and so I don't get overwhelmed with sponsored results on the moon, turbo-generators, Chicago, etc as with google.

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Author:  softwerkslex [ Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
The sternwheeler Lone Star in LeClaire, Iowa has a Moon dynamo.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jul 26, 2023 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
Back in the hazy days of history I traded a Moon dynamo to Jack Anderson for a couple injectors when I was at Georgetown Loop. He was going to use it on "his" Shay as I recall..... the little 2 truck one. It may be still sitting there in Mineral somewhere.
Author:  mpipetmike [ Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
What I don't understand is that with all the steam locomotives out there no one has developed a brand new replacement for all these now 100 year old turbo generators. The A1 trust has a turbo generator converted to take a standard automotive alternator (link) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9gih8wnQ-4. I'm not a locomotive technician or an electrical engineer, just a simple mechanic, but there's a reason car manufactures replaced generators with alternators in the 1960's. They are more efficient, produce more power and are easier to service. There are brush-less alternators that have ratings up to 500A, the standard Pyle is 500W@32V. As an example a Delco 55SI produces 430A@12V or 5160W!
Most main line steam locomotives are using 2 or 3 turbo generators to produce a fraction of that. In a time when several groups are building brand new steam locomotives from scratch, there isn't even a conversion kit. Go ahead and tell me it's cheaper to rebuild a 100 year old turbo generator, when many of the parts no longer exist. As far as different voltages, modern electronics can convert DC to AC and any voltage to any voltage.

Mpipetmike
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Wed Oct 25, 2023 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Oct 26, 2023 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
There's a locomotive (or was) in Cuba with the turbine section of the Pyle National dynamo rigged with a pulley and belt to run an automotive alternator. If I had to invent a power source I'd probably use Peltier junctions through the smokebox walls, to make some use of the waste energy, keeping batteries charged and going with LED light fixtures....... those dynamos use quite a bit of steam and whine a lot while doing it.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
Dave wrote:
.... those dynamos use quite a bit of steam and whine a lot while doing it.


This statement got me to wondering just how much actual steam a dynamo would use, and how much it might affect a locomotive with poor steaming qualities?

Les
Author:  Kelly Anderson [ Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
.
Author:  JeffH [ Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
mpipetmike wrote:
What I don't understand is that with all the steam locomotives out there no one has developed a brand new replacement for all these now 100 year old turbo generators.


It depends on your mission. If that includes authentic, historic preservation, then you repair or replace in-kind, unless such is not feasible (e.g. restrictions on what are now considered hazardous materials). Historic preservation is more than paint and lettering ; it is also preservation of engineering and technology such as it existed some time between when the object was made and when it entered preservation.

Otherwise, along the same lines, why have all those finicky analog pressure gauges? Just put in digital gauges. Get rid of that old-fashioned #6ET braking and put in some #26. Maybe a nice LNG or
propane burner instead of that dirty coal stuff?
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
Where's the LIKE button when I need it?!
Author:  Bad Order [ Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
Quote:
Dave wrote:.....If I had to invent a power source I'd probably use Peltier junctions through the smokebox walls, to make some use of the waste energy, keeping batteries charged and going with LED light fixtures.


Peltier junctions don't produce electricity.... they consume it. We (at the UP) has some locomotive refrigerators about 20 years ago in which the cold was produced by Peltier junctions attached to the metal lining of the refrigerators. I don't know why, but they removed them all after a while.

A locomotive electrician buddy snagged some of the junctions from the fridges.... he rigged up a way to cool an ice chest with some. He cut a hole in the back wall of the ice chest, fit a large, rectangular aluminum heat sink in the hole (fins out)... sealed around it, then attached a few of the junctions to the smooth inside of the heatsink. 2 little 12 volt muffin fans on the outside of the heatsink. Ran a cord to the 12 volt cigarette lighter in his truck. It would cool right on off in there... heat emanating from the fins on the outside. Wasn't real efficient, but it was an interesting invention.
If you reverse the polarity to the junction, the process reverses itself... it would get hot in the cooler.
Those junctions are pretty neat.
Author:  Bob D. [ Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Moon Manfacturing Dynamo
They do produce electricity if you apply heat and cool the opposite side. If you apply electricity they produce heat on one side and cool on the other. Not very efficient, but cool!
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