Catskill Mountain Railroad (CMRR) Discussion - 2022

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

The CMRR's 2022 season will open Saturday, April 9th.

Our ridership results for 2022 can be found at this link:

https://catskillmountainrailroad.com/wp ... 011822.pdf

An updated version of our plan to extend our track to Basin Road can be found here:

https://catskillmountainrailroad.com/wp ... y-2022.pdf

The new crossing gates and flasher project for the Route 209 crossing can be found here, with bid documents:

https://catskillmountainrailroad.com/ro ... mentation/

Our operating permit was recently extended by our Landlord, Ulster County, until December 31, 2023.

We are looking forward to a great year for 2022.

EH

ArtS · **Joined:** Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:31 pm **Posts:** 53

Ernie,

Your (CMRR's) work is impressive. Has this had an effect on the political climate? Given that the lease is only to Dec. 2023, CMRR remains on a tight leash in spite of recent accomplishments.

Do you know and would you be able to share trail use counts at the reservoir or will that stir up too much noise?

Sincerely,

Art S.

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

The trail people say they have had 600,000 visitors on the Ashokan Rail Trail since it opened in October 2019. They use some kind of automated system that registers everyone that passes the sensor.

That number is not verifiable, and likely includes lots of double counting. Also, most of the users are local, so have no economic impact.

EH

Howard P. · **Posted:** Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:44 pm

But the trail numbers are accepted without question or nuance (locals vs out-of-towners), because: "trail".

Your ridership reports are very good.

Howard P.

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

Here is a photo of CMRR 401 at our current end of our ride at MP 8.1:

http://photos.greatrails.net/s/?p=270286

We are still lobbying to get permission to renovate the next two miles of track to build a terminal at MP 10.01 adjacent to Ashokan Reservoir.

EH

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:06 am

eehiv wrote:

The trail people say they have had 600,000 visitors on the Ashokan Rail Trail since it opened in October 2019. They use some kind of automated system that registers everyone that passes the sensor.

That number is not verifiable, and likely includes lots of double counting. Also, most of the users are local, so have no economic impact.

Have you and others surveyed trail users to verify their residences? Or, for that matter, train riders? In quantity, over time, using proper survey protocols and random users?

If not, your suppositions about "no economic impact" and "double-counting" are as unverifiable as their own allegations about "trail users" and their high numbers.

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

Our numbers are entirely derived from the zip codes provided in our reservation system from our customers which we break down in great detail and post on our website:

https://catskillmountainrailroad.com/wp ... 011822.pdf

As you can see, the CMRR's ridership is at least 80% from out of Ulster County, which brings in additional spending which can be quantified.

Trail users are generally 80% local. A good breakdown of this is included in this report which was done in 2013 on trail use projected for the Ashokan Rail Trail:

https://headwaterseconomics.org/wp-cont ... -trail.pdf

This points to the underlying political issue of tourist railroads vs. trails. Because most of the users for tourist railroads as from out of town, they don't vote locally. Trail users are generally locals who vote locally and can flex their power through local politicians.

The offset is local businesses that benefit from the out-of-town users brought in by a tourist railroad. Their advocacy is key to keeping the tourist railroad in place and the main reason the CMRR has survived over the years.

EH

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

CMRR Fall Foliage Train crossing the C9 bridge west of Kingston, NY:

https://youtu.be/YvgSS8ScJfs

EH

Overmod · **Joined:** Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm **Posts:** 2492

Personally, I'd like to see superheater's analysis of the methodology and conclusions in the Camoin Associates report. By p.13 I already had a fair laundry list of potential issues with what the trail proponents are saying...

lvrr325 · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:13 pm **Posts:** 25

Probably 500,000 of those trail users are the same dozen deer going back and forth past the sensors.

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

Recent videos from the CMRR's Polar Express:

https://youtu.be/nwMoyWUpl68

https://youtu.be/LG0bR43au5w

https://youtu.be/3uKmIBOWHqw

EH

eehiv · **Joined:** Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:54 pm **Posts:** 1336

The CMRR concluded its 2022 season on Wednesday December 28th with its last Polar Express train. The CMRR carried over 28,000 customers for Polar this year, as well as an additional 18,000 for the rest or the year. Our total ridership of over 46,000 was our best ever.

We were able to get all five of our Kingston coaches back into service this year - one of the P72s was renovated during Covid, and another is slated to be renovated in 2023. We also had new flashers and gates installed at the Route 209 crossing, a huge safety improvement, with the same scheduled for installation at Washington Avenue in 2023.

We also completed interior finish out and electric in our Westbrook Station which is now a full-fledged all-weather ticket office for the CMRR.

We are still working to get approval to extend the line to Basin Road in 2023.

All in all, it was a very successful year for the CMRR, and marks our full return to normal operations after the pandemic.

EH