GTW 8327 is an 0-8-0 built for Grand Trunk Western in April of 1927. It became Northwestern Steel & Wire #10 in 1960 and eventually came to rest at Bandana Square in St. Paul, MN at Bandana Square, a now-failed shopping mall built on a railroad them in the Northern Pacific Como Shops complex.

Originally, an F7 (minus its innards) and an ex-BN box car were displayed at one side of the complex, while GTW 8327 was displayed on the other. In between two shop buildings the transfer table and a non-descript flat car were "preserved" with the intent that the flat car would become a stage for "festivals".

Anyhow, the F7 is gone, donated to the Minnesota Transportation Museum. You can see it, and some history at

http://mtmuseum.org/?body=jsr/roster/gn454A.html

8327 looks reasonable from a distance, apparently having been painted fairly recently:



Another view of 8327 shows the running gear from the left side of the locomotive.



Now here's a question for the steam gurus out there. The photo below shows a cylindrical gizmo, mounted between the frame members and beneath the ashpan. It doesn't look like it was original equipment, as it is held in place by angle iron sloppily welded to the frame. What the heck is it?



And last, but not least, here's a view of the transfer table with flat car of uncertain lineage. It has archbar trucks, but that's about all I know. It is suffereing from weather damage.

Sorry, I don't know about the device on the 0-8-0, but the flatcar was a caboose (Soo Line, if I remember) when I first saw it in the 1970s. I believe it got the chainsaw treatment later as an alternative to proper maintenance and possibly to create a stage for musical performances. I think it still has the caboose steps and railings present.

You're right, in that the steps and railings are still there. Dunno why that didn't occur to me when I was up there. Duh.

The device you see under the firebox may be something to do with the firing mechanisum. It seems to me that I read somewhere that these 0-8-0's were converted to run on oil instead of coal sometime during their time at NSW. J. David, maybe you can shed some light on this.
Leverett Fernald

Could that device be the separator tank for a continuous blowdown system? I've seen a diagram of one that looks sort of like that, but I've never seen one on a real locomotive so I cant' say for sure. I have no evidence that Northwestern would ever have equipped its engines with such devices, but it seems like reducing the need for manual blowdowns might have been a welcome improvement within the close confines of the mill's yard.

Hmmmm… The Soo Line caboose was 99014, built by the Wisconsin Central Ry. in 1882 as their number 23, passing to the Soo Line with the lease of the WC in 1909. I show it being sold to the Minnesota Transportation Museum, but not the date.

In the early eighties I asked about access to this car, and was told it was on loan to Bandanna Square, and my contact said he would check on requirements for access. A while later my contact got back to me telling me that it was lucky he did, as he found that the developer was just about to make the “display” into a popcorn stand, chainsawing a serving window in the side in the process. IIRC, the museum objected, and a steel BN car was acquired for the popcorn stand. I know I was finally able to arrange for SLHTS member Gary Klouda to confirm some basic body measurements and do detailed measurements of the end railings; these later proved useful in assisting Overland in doing a brass model of a similar car. My notes from Gary are dated 6-25-87, and as far as I know the car was intact then.

I am a bit distressed that I don’t see the car in the current roster on the MTM web site; I would have thought it would have been returned to MTM if it was no longer going to be used as a display. Perhaps Roger (caboose9) can tell us where it went.

There may be a cautionary tale here. Developers are typically all smiles when they are offering you a free place to “store” an artifact in return for its “display.” The picture turns decidedly uglier when the business is going down the tubes and there is no money for them to meet their obligations. Be forewarned.

I just re-read Bob’s post, then looked closely at the last photo. Showing clearly against the brick wall is an end railing at the far end of the “flatcar” with one of the Soo’s distinctive ladder stirrups hanging under the railing and a conductor’s valve poking above it.

WAY TO GO, MTM.

That’s one reason I tend to frown on new “let’s snatch another body” projects. We, collectively as a community, can’t keep the equipment that we have supposedly preserved intact, yet we want to burden ourselves with more?

HI All

The tank just maybe,,the setup for the oil burner,,,Pat.

I guess I'm a bit confused. Ex-GTW #8327 went to Bandana Square, where the photo now shows it sitting "on display". But the text says that Bandana Square is a "now-failed shopping mall". So, who owns the 8327 these days? MTM? A new owner of the mall? Or.....?

Les

Les,

It is my understanding that the developer of Bandana Square purchased the 0-8-0 directly from IRM (yes, this is one of the surplus Northwestern Steel & Wire engines that IRM was hawking off years ago). However, I was lead to believe that the wood caboose was on LOAN from MTM. Perhaps, after it had deteriorated enough, they didn’t want it back and other arrangements were made.

Dennis -

Thanks for the note. I am aware that the Bandana Square developer bought the 8327 (Northwestern Steel & Wire #10) directly from IRM. My question is who owns the 0-8-0 now? IF the picture is recent, she seems to be fairly well taken care of. But perhaps the photo is older. If so, what does she look like today? I thought perhaps the new owner (if there is one) of the Bandana Square property, is keeping her painted. Or that perhaps she was given to MTM, and they are looking out for her. Being outside, it is important that somebody look after her, or she will eventually start deteriorating.

Les

The photos in this thread were shot in September, so that's a very current appearance. I don't know who takes care of it, but will try to find out. I have this vague recollection that it might have been repainted by Steve Sandberg's crew, but that could be completely wrong. To quote the great New York Yankees catcher, Yogi Berra "My memory isn't what it never was"

There are some large cutout numbers spelling "8327" sitting on a workbench at the Minneapolis Junction steam shop, so I imagine that the 261's crew was/is involved somehow in the GTW engine's cosmetic makeover. I visited Bandanna Square in early October and was pleasantly surprised to see it looking much better than the only photograph I had seen of it.

I was chatting with Steve Sandberg today about ("ahem") other matters, and it crossed my mind that he might know the answer to a question that had nagged at me since I photographed the 8327 back in September of 2007. He did. The cylindrical thing under the firebox (see the top of this thread) was used, somehow, to apply steam to frozen switch points. It was a creation of (and installed by) Sterling Wire when they used the locomotive.

Glad you resurrected this thread and found out about the "cylindrical thing" under the firebox. So how about another answer? It was mentioned earlier in this thread (and back in November of 2007) that some large 8-3-2-7 numbers were cut out and "sitting on a workbench at the Minneapolis Junction steam shop". So did these ever get put on the cab of the 0-8-0? An updated photo showing same would be welcome (hint, hint!)

Les