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| Toronto Railway Museum https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42422 |
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| Author: | derekboles [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Toronto Railway Museum |
We at the Toronto Railway Museum were saddened to read that a discussion in this forum about the possible preservation of Canadian Pacific Mikado No. 5361 in Depew, New York had degenerated into a rant by a disgruntled former and short lived volunteer who identifies himself as joe6167. We know who this individual is, but we will respect his desire to cower in anonymity while he disparages the hard work and accomplishments of others. His departure from our midst was warmly welcomed by several volunteers who had unsuccessfully attempted to establish a productive relationship with him, which is apparently a pattern he has repeated in at least one other historical venue. Rather than individually dispute his potentially libellous claims currently being examined by our attorney for possible litigation when he returns to Canada from Poland, we offer instead photographic evidence of how the Toronto Railway Museum came about and what we have accomplished in recent years. First up is a 2015 article published in the Bytown Railway Society periodical Branchline outlining the history of the museum and some of our early accomplishments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lan3p1f99bjs0 ... m.pdf?dl=0 The article is frank in discussing the limitations imposed upon us by the City of Toronto and our efforts to establish and maintain a railway museum under trying circumstances. Would joe6167 rather we just throw in the towel and abandon the project as he did after demonstrating he was unable to play nice with others? Since that article was published, Toronto’s commuter agency GO Transit/Metrolinx has enough faith in our stewardship of Toronto’s railway heritage that they donated a fully restored 1967 cab car to the museum as a commemoration of their 50th anniversary. They did so at considerable expense since they had to repatriate the car after disposing of it in 1999 and then restore it to its original condition, minus of course the ashtrays in the smoking section. In 2017, approximately 45,000 visitors rode the Roundhouse Park Miniature Railway and there were 18,000 paid admissions to the museum. I suspect that many transportation museums would envy those numbers. Next up is photographic evidence of a number of preservation and display projects undertaken by our volunteers since the Branchline article was published. joe6167 was not one of them. Among those who did accomplish these projects were the dedicated “Merry Old Englishmen” that joe6167 cruelly disparages in his rant. Also not among them is the fictional “nuclear engineer” that joe6167 fantasizes as being the museum’s chief mechanical officer. https://www.dropbox.com/s/iu3ymksoat3le ... s.pdf?dl=0 Currently we are in the process of restoring Canadian Pacific Also S-2 No. 7020, the first diesel-electric locomotive assigned to the Toronto area in 1944. As much of the metal in the engine is seriously degraded, the museum is spending approximately $35,000 on this project. We regret that the railway preservation movement, with it’s limited number of dedicated volunteers, should be sullied and degraded in this manner by maladjusted volunteers with an axe to grind. We hope that our progress report will alleviate any concerns any of you may have about the Toronto Railway Museum’s continued substantial progress in celebrating Toronto’s railway heritage. Derek Boles Chief Historian Toronto Railway Museum |
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| Author: | joe6167 [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Toronto Railway Museum |
Gee thanks Derek, there is nothing anonymous about me... You and everyone else knows who I am... |
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| Author: | joe6167 [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Toronto Railway Museum |
Have you guys done ANYTHING to address the MASSIVE pile of safety concerns that I noted in my post, and have raised with the museum in the past, since I left? I know all of the issues I raised were summarily dismissed. And what are you talking about? You had the engineer from a nuclear powerplant as CMO for a brief stint. Together we tried to create a training and certification program for the place, until we were made persona non grata... he even made you guys a new minitrain engine, and didn't even get a word of thanks from the museum, as in a literal "thanks" ...so whatever dude... |
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| Author: | joe6167 [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Toronto Railway Museum |
Derek, I'm no Lawyer but I looked up Libel and it says: Quote: a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation. I think my post would be considered whistleblowing. Here are my original posts reformatted only to more easily highlight my grievances with the organization. The original posts are here: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41025&start=60 All of these grievances are born of things I have personally experienced and witnessed during my time with the museum, which dates back to at least 2010 when 6213 arrived at the museum. Of course my experience with 6213 goes even further back to about 2005 or so. So I would be quite delighted to hear how the museum has dealt with the issues I have raised in my post, unless of course you are making the libelous assertion that my statements are false, which they are not, so please let me know which points you contest and I will be more than happy to elaborate. Meanwhile I've quite clearly explained what went wrong with 6167. In fact, I even used it as a lesson on "How Not To Restore A Steam Locomotive" so that others in the community can avoid the same issues that arose during that project. joe6167 wrote: Here's how the John Street Roundhouse site is configured: -The actual roundhouse sits on solid ground, as are the two tracks that run under the coal plant. -The turntable sits on a heavy foundation, but still over the parking lot, in fact you can park UNDER the turntable. -However, all other tracks, INCLUDING most of the tracks running from the roundhouse stalls to the turntable are suspended over the parking garage. -We were all sent an engineering study that mapped out which equipment could go where. For example, passenger cars (Such as the Cape Race, Jackman and GO Car), due to their longer wheel base, were permitted to be put out into the park. Switchers, such as the ALCO and Baldwin, could NOT be put into the park, because of their shorter wheel base. The issue here is that on equipment with a shorter wheel base, the weight of that equipment would only be transferred to ONE of the support columns in the parking lot below, whereas longer equipment would be supported by at least TWO columns. In other words, the columns in the parking garage are too far apart to support the weight of the locomotives. -Also only certain combinations of equipment were allowed out in the park. If recall correctly, it was ok having the GP7 out in the park, but only certain other equipment could be out there as well. As well, the tracks on either side of the GP7 can't have any equipment on it, when it's there. -And there are talks and rumours of bringing in more locomotives in the future, for example the LRC (which the museum does own) and other locomotives that may be donated in the future. -I got into an argument with management about this next point: According to the latest issued engineering report, based on the way it was worded, it technically excluded 6213 from going inside the roundhouse (because it passes over a section of radial track that the report considered inadequate to hold 6213. I asked the management to confirm if this is true or a typo (because it did change from an earlier issued report), but I was blown off. WHAT is the point of having a report if you're just going to do whatever you want? Why is the museum untenable? 1) The museum has no equipment for maintaining or restoring, for example, locomotives. It only has a small "carpentry shop". Management have forbidden equipment from being painting inside the roundhouse (which consists of three stalls, one a tiny "museum" with nothing to see, that you can get through in a minute, the next stall is occupied by a rotted out passenger car used as an office and lunchroom, leaving only one stall to work on equipment) 2) The band of Merry Old Englishmen (M.O.E.) that are now left to handle all projects, have zero mechanical aptitude. They used spend their days on carpentry jobs, like residing a caboose or two, but that's it. Now those same guys are operating locomotives, switching equipment, making mechanical decisions... After talking to them, their complete lack of knowledge is terrifying to the extreme. 3) There was never any kind of training or certification done. No one should be operating anything there, at the moment. We tried to start a certification program for things like the Whitcomb, the Pyke Crane, Switching Procedures, and Running the Turntable (after I witnessed one of the Merry Old Englishmen abusing the turntable). I even started writing an instructions manual and training course for the turntable, when we were all excommunicated (because the M.O.E.s didn't like our claim that they didn't know what the hell they were doing, or talking about...) 4) Equipment stored permanently outside, next to a MAJOR tourist attraction that routinely attracts vandalism, and vagrancy. There is no security to speak of at the site. Heck that CNR GP7 was given the works by CN before it was donated to the City of Toronto in 1986 and ensconced inside the roundhouse for 20+ years. It was in mint condition when it was put away, but the past decade of being kept outside is really taking a toll on it. Plus the vandalism it receives... 5) The previous regime did not maintain anything, and any repairs done were very poorly executed. For example, the CLC-Whitcomb switcher they have is in atrocious shape. It should not be allowed to run. among other things, it needs some serious brake work done, and remember, there is NO room for error in that park. When the Whitcomb and 6213 are on the turntable together, there is maybe 5" of clearance between couplers and the turntable railing. Don't forget, that when the brakes are applied to the Whitcomb, 6213 keeps pushing it, you hear the whitcomb skidding. 6) When the new (now former) CMO, a former Nuclear Power Plant Engineer, and long time railway preservationist, who even owned a small locomotive leasing company, saw the state of the whitcomb, which he had worked on when it was at its previous home, he was shocked. 7) Likewise the turntable, which cost millions to restore, hasn't received any maintenance. If that fails, I think there will be some tough questions for the museum to answer from the City of Toronto (which owns everything). 8) Too many fingers in the Pot. In addition to having to deal with the City of Toronto, there is also the Steam Whistle Brewery that occupies one half of the roundhouse, and "the Rec Room" some kind of restaurant owned by Cineplex, that occupies the other half. This creates lots of problems... trying to balance their needs and wants with the needs of the museum. Guess who loses every argument... 9) The museum has no storage space for anything, and what space they did have, off site, has been or will be lost. Leon's let them store stuff in a warehouse of theirs, but now that Leon's is out of the roundhouse, how long will that generous arrangement carry on for? Meanwhile, the work space is just stacked deep with crap. It's a nigtmare. 10) The place is a death trap. Safety is a none issue, there have been so many close calls over the years, some of which I have seen personally, and all within inches of the public. If and when someone does get killed there, that will be the end of the place for sure. Since 6213 arrived in 2009, working on it has been a nightmare. She was supposed to be repainted as far back as 2005 (when I first started helping out with her at the CNE), but that kept getting deferred because of the planned move to John Street. It's now 2018. Also in that time, she was almost never allowed to go into the roundhouse for restoration work or maintenance. Keep in mind that she was getting moved around fairly often since she arrived and we were unable to do any maintenance to any of the moving parts for a long time simply because we couldn't get under the engine. Back at the CNE we COULD get underneath by slithering around between the rails, but at John Street, there are paving stones between all of the rails, so it was impossible to get under the locomotive. We finally did get her inside around 2015-2016 to service all the moving parts. 11) They're still bouncing around the idea of painting her (she looks like crap), but she won't be allowed to be painted inside the roundhouse. It will have to be done outside. Plus they want to paint it with brushes. How do I put this... 6213 was better off at the CNE... we could do all the work we ever wanted to there, and the concrete pad she sat on really helped for working underneath the locomotive... she had a fence... no one bothered her...it was great. So in conclusion, they don't have the means or the skill to really work on anything. And the work they have done there... well... 12) ...One day I walked in while the M.O.E.'s were working on 6213's cab, and at the exact moment I walked in, one of the M.O.E.'s was in the process of torching the bolts that held on one of the cab numerals, and after he cut the last bolt, the cast-iron numeral fell off the side of the cab, hit the ground, and snapped in half... Do not pass go... do not collect $200... please never touch another piece of railway equipment... And you want to dump MORE equipment on to that place? [edit]: The "smart" preservationist would start drawing up plans to RESCUE equipment from John Street [edit]: don't forget Toronto already had a failed railway museum in the 1970s, that saw most of its equipment scrapped (though some of the junkier junk did end up at John Street). joe6167 wrote: Yep, it could have been something... Why couldn't they have allocated at maybe 1/3rd of the roundhouse to the museum? You know, so they could protect all that equipment?
13) OH, and the other death knell, was losing the machine shop, which was a huge space. Somehow Toronto Hydro got ownership of a part of land that had the machine shop on it (even though it's actually part of the roundhouse). The museum had been using it, and it could have played a part in giving the museum a place to work on equipment and display stuff. But nope. The museum was kicked out, the machine shop was deconstructed, so Toronto Hydro could build a MASSIVE station under it, and of course once it was reconstructed, the museum was not allowed back in. Even with the current configuration of the museum, that machine shop could have been a game changer. Don't forget that at least one other building was supposed to have been preserved (the car shops), that would have made a fantastic display space. So from 32 stalls, a machine shop, and a car shop, the museum has been whittled down to 3 stalls and that's it. Oh, and the "carpentry shop" I mentioned, was just a little area inside the museum stalls where the M.O.E. work, it has nothing to do with any actual facilities that were there. |
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| Author: | jayrod [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Toronto Railway Museum |
Just so's ya knows, yer skatin' a tad too close to the line here. Please retread "Rant" in the announcements at the top of the main Interchange page. Urination distance competitions won't be tolerated for long..... |
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| Author: | steaminfo [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Toronto Railway Museum |
Enough. Thread is locked. I will leave it to the other moderators to decide how much of it (or all of it) to delete. |
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