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Steam loco roller bearing lube
https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42349		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Steam loco roller bearing lube
What was traditionally used to lubricate roller bearing on drive axles on steam locomotives? Was it grease cake or oil in a box like on diesel axles?
Thanks in advance, Jack
Author:  Dave [ Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Hi Jack - the bearings were mounted in hollow cannon boxes which held oil in them, and sealed at both sides where the axles protruded. I'm sure somebody here has specs for a modern oil that will work.
Author:  Lincoln Penn [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
For the past several decades, Timken has recommended 85W140 EP oil for this application.

EP stands for Extreme Pressure.
Author:  Rick Rowlands [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
85W140 is what I used in the cannon boxes on the J&L 58
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
GL-5 85w-140 would be the modern equivalent. Not all of them will be labelled EP since GL-5 spec covers the EP part already.
Author:  CREEPING DEATH [ Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Pegasuspinto wrote:
GL-5 85w-140 would be the modern equivalent. Not all of them will be labelled EP since GL-5 spec covers the EP part already.


I believe GL-4 is what you're after; GL-5 is known to attack brass and other 'yellow metals'

CD
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
GL-4 lacks the EP rating. GL-5 supposedly eats brass/bronze synchros not because it hurts brass but because it prevents them from working correctly.

what specific brands/stock #'s are being used in roller bearing locos now? Anyone have a label?
Author:  whodom [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Pegasuspinto wrote:
GL-4 lacks the EP rating. GL-5 supposedly eats brass/bronze synchros not because it hurts brass but because it prevents them from working correctly.

GL-5 also apparently attacks the enamel coating on the wire used in generator and motor windings, a fact a few of us have learned the hard way from using it in motorcycle primary chain drives. And it stinks to high heaven because of the sulfur content.
Author:  Overmod [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Time for the 'tribology nerds' to chime in with a discussion of the actual packages of EP additives that sould be used to 'fortify' GL-4 for this specific application.

Is there a difference between 'best' for SKF rollers and tapered rollers in typical driver-bearing surface, in real-world experience?
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
The reason I asked is I remember the "" Steam Expert"" coming up with grease cake packs for the locomotive.( this was 1992 and he was NOT an expert) All data I have seen claims it has roller bearings. The locomotive in question is NKP 384 WLE 3984, I've never paid much attention and I'm in no hurry to go down and look at it. (will PISS me OFF to go near the place right now), Doesn't mean a plan isn't being worked on.
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
As a matter of fact I just fund a report from 1989 stating new block grease for grease boxes on drive wheels was purchased. This was done to allow the locomotive to be towed. Is this something in addition to the actual lube for the rollers?
Am I not understanding how journals work on a steam engine? Supposedly all the B-5's were roller bearing equipped and was one of the reasons they were last in service.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Not difficult to tell the difference by looking at the between frames parts of the axles. If you see axles, it's not roller bearing and lube is by grease blocks or oily waste in the cellars in the two separate boxes. If you see a bolted together casting that isn't smoothly cylindrical that includes both boxes, it is roller bearing. Grease blocks won't help. It's likely you can roll it a bit on oil in the cannon boxes from decades ago unless there's evidence of cracks or damage that let the oil run out. Can't help with the frustration issue......... plenty of that here too. I recall visiting the most modern 0-6-0 in the world - is this the one we're talking about, with a front end throttle, overfire jets, etc? Impressive.
Author:  Overmod [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
There has been some work in adapting grease lube -- as in AAR M-942 -- to some types of steam-locomotive roller bearings. This will NOT involve grease thick enough to form 'cakes' nor would it involve any kind of cellar (Hennessy or otherwise) to feed it.

Same applies to injected hard lubricant like Alemite pressurized against spring feeders. Anything that under anticipatable climate conditions might induce skidding of a journal or race against the roller 'line contacts' is a disaster in the making, even if it is an accepted wear mode for Multirol needle bearings. Grease that tends to freeze a cage as the bearing first rotates is ... not the done thing.
Author:  Dave [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
If it needs oil I'd use any heavy gear oil without additives before any type of grease assuming standard American roller bearing practice. I presume here we're not talking about taking her out on the road hauling a train. Before going back in service, I'd use some light oil like diesel or kerosene in the bearings after draining out the old oil, as a cleanser before refilling with the right modern oil - such as what Rick's using. No steam locomotive in a museum setting is going into heavy revenue service so the oil should last for a long time once replaced before any further replacement is necessary.
Author:  Jack A. Siffert [ Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam loco roller bearing lube
Yes Dave one and the same locomotive. You've been under and around and all over it and you don't remember either. I don't feel so bad now. yes NKP 384 W & LE 3984
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