I have a quick question for some of our D&H historians/rail buffs if you're able answer. I'm looking into the demise of passenger service on the D&H following the entry of Amtrak into the market and am searching the exact date of schedule termination. In addition would you be able to give me a context on why they ended service later than most private carriers. Was it simply because of the new, sudden competition with Amtrak or were there potential financial opportunities involved as well?

Cameron

D&H passenger service ended with Amtrak Day, May 1, 1971. The last arrivals of the Montreal Limited at GCT and Montreal's Windsor Station occurred that morning.

The State of New York later (1974) paid for passenger train service between Albany and Montreal, using D&H as a contract provider (providing crews and equipment). This operation lasted until 1977, when Amtrak took over the route and provided equipment.

Only 3 railroads operating passenger trains on April 30, 1971 did NOT join Amtrak: D&RGW, Southern and Rock Island. Rock Island couldn't afford the up-front costs and decided it was cheaper to operate the few remaining trains, Southern and Rio Grande wanted to keep the service standards up (they operated some very good trains), and were also not willing to pay the Amtrak initiation fees.

Cameron, you should consider obtaining some of the very good books about American railroad history, both specific railroads/subjects (like passenger trains), and general rail history of the 50s-60s-70s era. These books will answer most of your questions, and give you a good base knowledge about the American railroad industry in the last 60 years. Not everything is "on the Interwebs".

Howard P.

The Georgia Railroad also stayed out of AMTRAK.
Their mixed trains continued to run for a few years after 1971.

Paul

With all due respect to my friends south of the M-D Line, the Georgia Railroad was a rather marginal passenger carrier in 1971. I was going to mention that mixed train service, but decided to stick with the "Famous Three" roads.

Wonder how much a head the Georgia could charge nowadays to ride a "real" mixed train?

Howard P.

The Alaska Railroad still has passenger operations. To top it of, within the last year or so I saw a mixed train during the slower winter months.

"entry of Amtrak into the market" and "new, sudden competition" suggests Mr. Wolk is lacking an understanding of the creation and purpose of the National Railroad Passenger Corporation dba Amtrak.

In brief, intercity passenger service was in steep decline in the 60's due to competition from jet airline service and the interstate highway system. The trains were incurring major losses to the railroads. Although the heavily regulated railroads usually needed to get permission from the ICC and (sometimes) state regulators to discontinue trains, one by one the trains were being discontinued. Congress created NRPC to take over passenger service and basically "save" the American intercity passenger train. They would contract with the railroads to actually run the trains and pay for the use of the tracks but joining Amtrak would otherwise relieve the railroads of the passenger losses. Joining was not mandatory but if one did not join, further service discontinuances were blocked for something like five years. There was a fee to join based on prior year losses.

As stated, basically three carriers with "real" passenger service stayed out. Rio Grande for fear of what affect passenger trains (which have to stick to a schedule and other trains have to get out of the way for) might have on their freight operations, Rock Island (said it could not afford to join) and Southern (which apparently simply did not want to have anything to do with a government operation).

Amtrak's basic routes were a fraction of the passenger service that was still running at that time so its inception marked the end of many trains.

Surely those post 1971 state-supported trains were in fact technically Amtrak trains under 403B, the part of the law that allowed states to arrange for additional service if they covered the losses.

In April 1971, there were something like 300 inter-city passenger trains being operated by railroad corporations.

In May 1971, Amtrak was operating about 150 trains.

The service, reduced as it was in early 1971, was cut in half once Amtrak took effect. The common wisdom at the time was that Amtrak would be a relatively temporary measure, and with 5 years, the remaining inter-city passenger trains would wither and die off. The last 45 years have been a bit different.

Howard P.

In fact, the concept was actually "sold" to the skeptics and nay-sayers in Congress, wary of putting the nation "on the hook" for continuing operating subsidies, with the promise that it would be "profitable" in five years, or it would then be discontinued and liquidated.

We are coming up on the 40th anniversary of that planned "discontinuance" date.

This is, like many other examples, a classic case of why you never trust the word "temporary" next to a government program--it all too quickly becomes an "entitlement."

Three books I would recommend for the student/"newbie" trying to figure out Amtrak's beginning:
Journey to Amtrak by Harold Edmonson (Kalmbach, 1972)
All Aboard Amtrak by Mike Schafer (Railpace, 1991)
Twilight of the Great Trains by Fred W. Frailey (Kalmbach 1998; republished with additional material 2010 Indiana Univ. Press)

D&H had railfan management, and remained committed to the business very late. They put there name on equipment, put their diners on the trains. Amtrak wasn't used to this kind of pro passenger management. They didn't know what to do about it. A great book on the subject is "Delaware and Hudson Passenger Trains The Final Decade by Doug Lezette.

The D&H was driven out of business by their real estate and ticket taxes being spent on upgrading other forms of transportation. The last straw was the mail being moved to highways by powerful highway lobbies. That still control the government today. The loss of connections, high terminal costs in New York, Albany and Montreal. All huge terminals and yards for them. Plus the costs for labor to run them. Most of the riders being on the east coast where nowhere is very far away. Were low revenue short distance passengers. Modern trains follow modern tracks. And D&H didn't have them. They followed rivers and lakes.

Today's Adirondack service on the D&H route is very popular. Ridership is heavy south of Saratoga Springs. Due to there being two trains south of there. The Vermont train on a D&H route from Rutland joins the Adirondack route there. Plus the Saratoga and North Creek operation shares the City Bus owned terminal there. Amtrak a underfunded railroad has been breaking ridership and revenue records for years. Most riders ride between major cities to stops in between. Only 10 to 15% percent of riders go through. Major cities have bus and air service they don't need a train. But people on Intercityrail today are looking for comfort not speed. The D&H route upgraded with Tilt Trains could cut hours off the trip even on that old track bed. One train a day services are all costs without the volume to offset costs of operation. Ridership and revenue could double without high cost of high speed. By just doubling the service.

Like billion dollar highway programs? Airports and even waterways? The new ports for the super ships are not paid for by the Ocean transport companies. User fees do not cover these projects either. No government, no transportation. It's not 1860. The booming passenger rail business has not been treated with any fairness. Only cuts, service reductions and higher fares to control demand.

The lowest ridership was the first day Amtrak started. Most trains discontinued were west of the Hudson. High revenue long distance trains. The last 45 years have had record ridership and revenues nationwide. The old passengers found on the railroads are dead. Today the coaches are full of young people. Retired people are found in sleepers. They have the time and the money to ride there. The biggest problem with Amtrak is there is not enough of it to meet the demand for it. Business travel is found on the limited corridor services. The system is underfunded and neglected.

The passenger operation left on the Southern was a pretty tiny operation. Southern was a cash machine. So it wasn't a big deal to run the few trains they had left. Rock Island got $1500 a trip for the Rockets. Why would they join Amtrak? Soo continued their mixed trains. Georgia was free of real estate taxes if the railroad had a passenger "service" So the whole railroad had a service not a passenger train. Reading and South Shore did not join.

Where Georgia ran a passenger "service" their were NO real estate taxes. This lasted until the CSX took the railroad operations over.

OC&T runs a mixed train still doesn't it?

Okay, time to bump this over to "Railfanning".