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| 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39103 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
We kid you not. Even 4-8-4's. Averaging $5,000 each. Straight off railway storage. http://international.go-dove.com/en/eve ... e-118/lots There's the rub: South African steam, 1067mm/42" gauge, heavily cannibalised for spares. On par with the "Lost Engines of Roanoke." |
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| Author: | Bobharbison [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Amazing! Currently the "six pack" of what looks like mini Mohawks is going for $35,000 |
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| Author: | Termite7 [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Wow...I am going to bid on the Ryobi Angle grinder...!!! T7 |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
If one were considering starting an insular tourist line, this would be an opportunity. I think you could grab enough stuff to make a decent consist and have a good spares stock for very little. |
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| Author: | dinwitty [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
can you imagine those of you who buy brass engines today, a couple of them would get you a full sized steamer.... beats a recent brass lot on ebay, I went wow on that... but obviously the stickler is the rest of the story restoring the engine(s), but yes, we have a story here. |
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| Author: | Overmod [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
The real stickler is getting the engines over here, finding a place to run them effectively (that is, or can be cost-effectively converted to, Cape gauge), and arranging for rolling stock and other support to run them after they are put in running condition. I'd say all that is at least three orders of magnitude more than the indicated auction price, and makes the idea considerably less of a bargain Stateside. More's the pity. I'd like to see someone, in fact a number of someones, try, or at least come up with a business model that makes kindling out of my assumptions... |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Overmod wrote: The real stickler is getting the engines over here, finding a place to run them effectively (that is, or can be cost-effectively converted to, Cape gauge), and arranging for rolling stock and other support to run them after they are put in running condition. I'd say all that is at least three orders of magnitude more than the indicated auction price, and makes the idea considerably less of a bargain Stateside. More's the pity. I'd like to see someone, in fact a number of someones, try, or at least come up with a business model that makes kindling out of my assumptions... Just a thought, and if you want to say it's hooey, that's OK--but what about converting the engines to three-foot gauge? I'm thinking of a conversion similar to what was done with the Russian Decapods, which was wider tires on the driving wheels and regauging the other wheels. Would that be possible? Too bad the railroad in Newfoundland is gone; it was Cape gauge. |
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| Author: | Overmod [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
My understanding is that most of these engines are already very large for Cape gauge, and even conversion to meter gauge would involve some very expensive reworking. There's already a tremendous effective difference between those two gauges in terms of the size of engine that can be provided (think of the GELSA postwar locomotives), and taking more than another 3" off that (to get to 3') is a further enormous change. The situation is a bit different when going, say, from standard gauge to Russian 5', where you have adequate room to 'dish' the wheels inward around the bearing boxes or outward to the limits of how the rods fit with the mains still lined up with the piston rods. A number of locomotives were designed this way, including no few in Australia. I did not get the CD with all the SA locomotive drawings on it when it was available (one of my great regrets!) so I cannot tell you with authority, but I would not think that you could even get to meter gauge if you needed any effective lateral motion at all, or to 3' gauge via anything but hyperapace. It did occur to me, when I was about nine years old and first encountered the Holman locomotive, that the 'speeder wheel' idea was a potentially nifty way to get broader-gauge reciprocating steam locomotives to run semi-effectively on narrow gauge (and vice versa if anyone were so inclined). I even figured out some ways to do this with drive that was offset longitudinally. Then I grew up. |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Well, so much for that. Another thought, where else is Cape gauge used? I know of Japan's legacy network, and I think a South African 2-8-4 wound up in New Zealand (complete with centered headlight and a bell above it, typical of later North American practice!), but is there anyplace else? And of course, that also means not only dealing with the track gauge, but likely with the loading gauge, too. |
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| Author: | 70000 [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
J3a-614 wrote: Well, so much for that. Another thought, where else is Cape gauge used? I know of Japan's legacy network, and I think a South African 2-8-4 wound up in New Zealand (complete with centered headlight and a bell above it, typical of later North American practice!), but is there anyplace else? And of course, that also means not only dealing with the track gauge, but likely with the loading gauge, too. Main users of 3' 6" gauge are the southern part of Africa, Japan, New Zealand, Queensland, Tasmania and Indonesia - Full list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_ft_6_in_gauge_railways The bigger problem with the SAR stuff is the size of the loading gauge rather than the track gauge! |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
They kid you not. I've seen people watch videos of SAR steam, especially the Red Devil at speed, and they can't believe it's not standard gauge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVYS7xj3eic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slvWZzHT5s0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_APxKlMfORU |
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| Author: | Randy Musselman [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Hello, I'm the spirit of thread, per the link below, IMHO, the best footage of the Red Devil on web @ 3:30 on the video clock. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eR8h03yShu8 Sincerely, Randy |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Incidentally........... This turned up in my work because, unbelievably, I was asked to hunt down if any specific parts from a specific class of these locos were available. For a "commercial" refitting. I'm still flabbergasted that this is even possible, but apparently it's akin to refitting a Boeing 747 part to a Space Shuttle. At this point my client should be in the middle of trying to figure out how to deal with the folks in question, or whether in fact the desired part(s) still actually exist..... |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
Transnet SOC is essentially a government-owned "private enterprise" (think Amtrak) that succeeded, over time from 1961 to 1990, the state-owned South African Railways & Harbours and other formerly state-owned enterprises. As with similar companies in European Community Europe and elsewhere (Deutsche Bahn, Network Rail, the Japanese rail companies, etc.), it functions as a pseudo-private, pseudo-public company that's supposed to act/think capitalistic while maintaining a socialistic-style function. As with North America, the rail preservation scene in South Africa is a mixed bag of everything from commercial luxury trains to formal museums to "shoestring" outfits barely able to function or keep their rolling stock from being vandalized. Add to that a quite tumultuous political and economic environment, and it's an entirely different environment in which to function. I'm not following all the precise particulars of the specific locos up for auction, but suffice it to say that they're now regarded in South Africa in about the same calm, unemotional terms as a string of heavily cannibalized F40PH's or F7's, or a string of South Shore/Lackawanna MUs with busted windows and missing seats, or burned-out cabooses would be regarded by North Americans now, decades after the "fact" of "we gotta save them!" There's only so much they/we CAN save, and everyone who has either economic or historical want of such a steamer or other loco has had a decade or three to get their acts together. The auctions are closing and being removed from the listings as I type, and so far only two of the 13 steam locos that survived to the end of the auction (with a couple quite substantial lots withdrawn) have met reserves, and the auction site advises "This item may still be for sale" on some of the surviving locos. . . . . . So if you REALLY REALLY want to re-lay the Rio Grande Southern or start a South African-themed safari park, start your contacts NOW......... |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 38 Steam Locomotive in Scrap Auction RIGHT NOW |
For the compulsive steam locomotive trackers among us, here is a (still tentative) list of what just transpired: SOLD, with location: 15F 2996 and 3087 Kroomstad 25NC 3407 with "supertender" Worcester 25NC 3417 Worcester 14CRB 1788 Queenstown 15A 1970 Epping 15F 3163 (quite intact) Epping 24 3693 Voorbaai 24 3614 Voorbaai 15F 3042 Gemiston 15F 2928 Bloemfontein (originally part of 7-loco lot at this location) LOT CLOSED WITHOUT SALE but still available (not meeting reserve), with last location: At Klipplast: 15AR 1840 At Queenstown: 15AR 1798, 1966, 2100, 2012 4AR 1560 24 3667 19AR 693 15BR 1832 16CR 809 At Voorbaai: 16A 615 14A (2-6-2+2-6-2) 508 24 3606, 3625 At Worcester: 15F 3156 At Witbank: 19A 679 GM (Beyer-Garratt shell) 2304 G (4-8-2T) 7T (ex-colliery) GEA (4-8-2+2-8-4) 4003 7A 1019 H2 (4-8-2T) 249 WITHDRAWN from auction at Bloemfontein as one lot, then offered separately but unsold: GMAM 4090, 4129 11 928 25NC 3479 6B 524 |
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