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 Post subject: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4772
Location: Maine
This image is both appearing on the a Northeast Rails site and being offered on eBay. Sweet little locomotive, but a bit mysterious. She's Philadelphia and Reading #1, obviously a switcher. Built in 1883, she has link and pin couplers, and a pushing pole mounted to the pilot. The wood work for the cab alone is elegant, but...where are the fuel and water supplies? Perhaps the firebox isn't as wide as it seems, and the cabinets alongside hold an "only as needed" amount of each?
Just beautiful as an artifact - does anyone know of line drawings existing for the little critter? Also, is she black with gold stripes and lettering, or a dark wine red with gold stripes and lettering?
She'd make an interesting live steamer if drawings could be found.

Image

Thank for suggestions or assistance.

-Dick

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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
Are you sure that's not a Wootten firebox under the jacket, Dick? That badge between the drivers is about the shape of a Porter plate - but not sure of that era, they changed over the years........ My guess is they shoveled in a shitload of anthracite and ran her for a long time around the yard before she needed more - Pioneer Coal Mine has no coal bunker either. The water tanks appear to be between the cab floor and the tops of the drivers.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4772
Location: Maine
Dave- That explanation s probably as close to the truth as we'll get. I think she has a Wooten firebox, and I agree, there's water under the engineer's seat. Stoking her up on anthracite and then running her for as long as it held up makes good sense too. I doubt she ever left the docks area. Cutest little steamer I've seen in years, but I'm a sucker for Camels and Camelbacks anyway. I never tumbled to the Porter shield, either, so that's a good piece of the puzzle. Thanks! I'd still love a set of drawings, if they exist.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
Posts: 1270
After a quick look I can't find a Porter built for the Philadelphia & Reading that matches. What about that oval plate on the valve chest? A lot of little locos used around coal mines had no fuel bunker. they would just shovel from a loaded car as needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 118
Richard, try the Reading Co. Technical and Historical organization in Hamburg, PA.

http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I'm sure they can point you toward a source for the prints.

Alan
NESCO & RCT&HS member


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12150
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
For the record, the natural-born skeptic in me questioned whether or not this was certain to be a Philadelphia & Reading loco. On the other hand, it appears to be the wrong gauge for the Phillips & Rangeley.......

But a quick perusal of my books on the Reading show a few other locos in the P&R 1880-1900 era with matching lettering--that seemingly "8"-based ampersand and the unusual "R". And that's definitely a Wootten firebox.

Now, where did I bury that old copy of the R&LHS Bulletin with a supposedly complete P&R roster?.......


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1087
Richard Glueck wrote:
The wood work for the cab alone is elegant, but...where are the fuel and water supplies? Perhaps the firebox isn't as wide as it seems, and the cabinets alongside hold an "only as needed" amount of each?


Assuming it was assigned to a coal dock, it seems to me that the fireman would just get coal out of whatever loaded hopper it happened to be coupled to.

(In other words, why bother transferring coal from a hopper into a locomotive tender when you could just throw coal from a hopper directly into the firebox?)

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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:04 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
Chris Webster wrote:
Assuming it was assigned to a coal dock, it seems to me that the fireman would just get coal out of whatever loaded hopper it happened to be coupled to.


I was wondering the same thing, especially given what looks to be a coal car in the background. Probably lots of the stuff around, just grab what's handy from a company car.

Meanwhile, if you look at the original photo full size, it's really impressive!


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:32 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 550
Location: Granby, CT but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, where did I bury that old copy of the R&LHS Bulletin with a supposedly complete P&R roster?.......


I assume you mean R&LHS Bulletin 67, "History of the Locomotives of the Reading Company" by George M. Hart. Alas, that's one I'm missing. I do have a copy of Bulletin 118 with F. S. Graham's "Locomotives of the Sub-Lines of the Philadelphia & Reading Railway" but can't find anything that matches in his rosters.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:01 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 411
I also like the "back up" headlight under the canopy. I wonder if the firedoor was just above the buffer beam? mld


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:53 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 728
Looks like a pre-Wooten Millholland design, prob 1860s


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:50 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4772
Location: Maine
Excellent discussion, guys. Thank you , everyone! There is a P&R #1 listed in the Northeast Rails site. Says it was constructed in 1883, which fits into the photo rather well, but guarantees nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:51 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 548
Looks like a shovel and other fireman's tools on the rear pilot beam.

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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easily looks like water tanks on the side, perhaps under the rear, looks like some lift cover thing behind the boiler, some coal bin?, , throw some coal in it. I wonder if some raw mined coal isn't chunked down to the right size for this engine. It would obviously work the docks and stay close to its working fuel supply. Rear headlight location very differrent, perhaps clearances dictated that.


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 Post subject: Re: Can you help with details of this old steam loco?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 109
Location: Maine
Is this loco standard gauge or something else?

Bob D.


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