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How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)?
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Author:  p51 [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)?
I had no idea this turntable existed until now:
Image
No slam on the Chehalis Steam train folks, but I have no clue why they need a second turntable bridge when they’ve had another turntable bridge rusting away on their property in all the years I’ve been in the area.
http://myinforms.com/en-us/a/16055477-historic-railroad-turntable-moves-to-museum/
I get the whole, "come get it before we break out the torches" thing, but is it preservation to pull it out, set it down next to another which is slowly rusting away, with no apparent plans to dig a pit and install either of them?
I've talked with their people a couple of times over the years about a turntable (as they have room for one next to their depot) and I've always been told it's not even on their long range plans.
They haven't run anything at all this summer, for the first time since I've been here, but that's another subject. For now I'm scratching my head over this turntable thing for now...
Author:  Bobharbison [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Yes, it's preservation, as they are preserving it. The turntable will still exist. It was being removed since they no longer use it and they want to expand parking. I just bid on tearing out the track and straight railing the switch, and the first thing I asked was "What are you doing with the turntable?"

Since it was going to be removed, you have two options.
1) Scrap it. Increment global turntable count -1.
2) Put it into the Chehalis Home for Wayward Turntables, where, even if un-used, it will continue to exist.

I don't know what plans they have for them, if any. I will, however, point out that having two turntables would allow you to run forward every trip. Having a way to turn the engine at only one end of the line means you run every other trip backwards the entire run, as most engineers at the Mt. Rainier Scenic RR can attest. (I used to try and "game" the crew schedule, attempting to mark up for runs when I'd get two of the three runs going forward. If there were no cancelled or extra runs, you could do the math and figure it out.)

Until recently, MRSR would probably have been a potential home for it, allowing the trains to turn at both ends. However, in the last few years, they've begun running to the new museum at Mineral, rather than the loop at the lake. In traditional logging railroad fashion, you make half of each run in reverse.
Author:  p51 [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Okay, so they're holding onto it. It's now saved, but if it never leaves there and slowly returns to the Earth from whence it came (like the other one currently is), is that preservation at all?
I can't help but wonder if someone had a real use for it in a year or two and offered to pay for whatever it took to get it there, would Chehalis let it go, even though they apparently have zero intentions to install a turntable? My money would be on the answer being no every time.
Bobharbison wrote:
Until recently, MRSR would probably have been a potential home for it, allowing the trains to turn at both ends. However, in the last few years, they've begun running to the new museum at Mineral, rather than the loop at the lake. In traditional logging railroad fashion, you make half of each run in reverse.
Yeah, no room at Elbe for a turntable, but plenty of room at Mineral for one.
Author:  Bobharbison [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
p51 wrote:
I can't help but wonder if someone had a real use for it in a year or two and offered to pay for whatever it took to get it there, would Chehalis let it go, even though they apparently have zero intentions to install a turntable? My money would be on the answer being no every time.


Not sure why you say that. The Chehalis group is a good bunch of folks and reasonable to work with. I don't recall ever hearing about them refusing to help somebody when it was needed. I think there were some equipment dealings between them and MRSR that benefited both groups. I don't think there's any reason to speak poorly of them.


Quote:
Yeah, no room at Elbe for a turntable, but plenty of room at Mineral for one.


Correct, but not much use for one at Mineral. Even if they wanted to build a roundhouse, it wouldn't fit into the logging railroad theme they're after. Simpson had a roundhouse, but they're one of the few loggers that did. They're going after the "Railroad Camp" look and what they have now suits that very well.
Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
This will be the 98th turntable moved for reuse by a railroad museum or tourist operation. I have information on it being declared surplus by the Navy in 2006. But can anyone tell me about the other turntable at the museum already? Where it is from, who owned it before, and most importantly its length and ideally its builder would be most appreciated. Thirty-six of the 98 are now in use, nine moved twice and three moved three times due to museum moves, etc. Only nine are known to have been scrapped but there are a few where the situation is unclear.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Ron Goldfeder wrote:
This will be the 98th turntable moved for reuse by a railroad museum or tourist operation.


Ron -

Do you have a list of these 98? Perhaps previously on RyPN? Thanks.


Les
Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
My list was published in the fall 2010 issue of the Railway Museum Quarterly/Trainline magazine. I have an updated version, with this info just added into it, but it is 29 pages long. Send me a PM and I can send it to you attached to an e-mail. I'd like to find out about the other turntable at this museum first though. I don't have anything on it.
Author:  Chris Webster [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Ron Goldfeder wrote:
But can anyone tell me about the other turntable at the museum already? Where it is from, who owned it before, and most importantly its length and ideally its builder would be most appreciated.

It is visible on Google Maps: Google Map View of 590 SW Hillburger Rd, Chehalis, WA

When I rode with him several years ago, Harold told me where they acquired the turntable from, but I don't believe I recorded that information.
Author:  atsfm177 [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Wow, timing. I'm just preparing to head to Bremerton next week to do my bi-annual railroad track audit. I always enjoyed checking out the turntable. Now I have to update my track list and delete it. :-(

Greg
Author:  John T [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Ron,

The turntable stored at Chehalis was originally installed at Hamilton, WA by the Great Northern. It was sold to the Puget Sound & Baker River Ry and installed at their log dump just north of Mount Vernon, WA in 1908. In 1923 it was moved to the new PS&BR log dump at Similk Bay near Anacortes, WA. It served there until the end of the railroad in 1959. It sat for about ten years then was donated to the Puget Sound Ry. Hist. Assn. of Snoqualmie but was never moved. Along came the Skagit River RR tourist operation in the 1970s. They moved the table to Concrete, WA were it sat until being moved to Chehalis. As I recall it is a 60 foot table. It was originally hand powered but an air motor was applied at some point.
Author:  Les Beckman [ Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
John T -

Thanks for the info. If I read it correctly, this Great Northern/Puget Sound & Baker River Railroad turntable was moved twice, once it was preserved. Ron Goldfeder will probably greatly appreciate its history. BTW, Ron's list of 98 turntable's is really great and I heartily recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.

Les
Author:  Ron Goldfeder [ Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Thanks so much to John T. for the story of the second turntable at Chehalis. It is now the 99th turntable in my listing of those moved for museum or tourist line use. And it is the 17th to have been moved twice. Here is how I now have it listed and any corrections or additional information, especially years of the two last moves, would be welcome.

"Dates Needed - The Chehalis-Centralia Railroad and Museum has a former Great Northern 60’ turntable from Hamilton, WA. It was sold to the Puget Sound & Baker River Ry and installed at their log dump just north of Mount Vernon, WA, in 1908. In 1923 it was moved to the new PS&BR log dump at Similk Bay near Anacortes, WA. It served there until the end of the railroad in 1959. It sat for about ten years then was donated to the Puget Sound Ry. Hist. Assn. of Snoqualmie but was never moved. In 1973 a local group raised funds and operated a steam excursion train on Burlington Northern (formerly GN) tracks between the towns of Sedro-Wooley and Concrete in the Skagit River Valley using 2-6-2 #6. The operation only lasted for one summer in 1979. They moved the table about 46 miles to Concrete, WA, at an unknown date. It sat there until being moved about 184 miles to Chehalis at an unknown date. It is listed in the stats as moved twice and stored."

The distances are town to town ones from MapQuest. If anyone is going to the Chehalis operation please take a tape measure confirm its length and see if it has a builder's plate to identify who made it. Photos would also be appreciated.
Author:  p51 [ Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Ron Goldfeder wrote:
If anyone is going to the Chehalis operation please take a tape measure confirm its length and see if it has a builder's plate to identify who made it. Photos would also be appreciated.
I know from memory it was built by a Chicago firm, I think in 1897. I'd taken a photo of it a couple of years ago for a pal living in Chicago, which is why I recall that part.
I'll go back through my photos and see if I still have the picture. If not, I could swing by there tomorrow morning as I'll be really close to there anyway.
Author:  Pegasuspinto [ Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
I just wanted to say thanks to Mr. Goldfeder for keeping a list of turntables. It's little thinks like turntables that can get overlooked.

Are the turntables at Eureka Springs and North Arkansas, and the one at the Reader RR, on your list? AFAIK those two and the 'modern' one in the UP's North Little Rock yard, are the only ones left in Arkansas.
Author:  Dougvv [ Sun Sep 06, 2015 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How many turntables does an operation need (and not use)
Hi,

Quote:
No slam on the Chehalis Steam train


My only comment is about the Atlanta Chapter NRHS. They had a 12 acre site with an ex-CofG (IIRC) turntable. The table seemed to appear in the early 1980s and was still on the property when the museum moved across the railroad to an ex-railroad repair location in the late 1990s.

There was always an intent to install the table and the pit was dug, but the cost to install the piviot and pour concrete for the pit itself was never available. S&A 750 running for Southern's Steam Program dropped off as Southern went to larger power.

I do not really know the details but saying that Chehalis (which I know nothing about) was letting a turntable rust away might not be completely fair.

The Cumbres & Toltec also has/had an ex-C&S turntable that was a through truss design and unlike anything D&RGW used. I've not been out there since 1999. The table might still be there.

I'd also like to mention that the Alamosa D&RGW turntable was cut down and shipped to the Sumpter Valley. If I understand it correctly, they never have had the money to install it. Last I heard, they were thinking of using a wye instead.

I wonder how many turntables were purchased for preservation and use that have yet to be installed? The D&RGW Alamosa turntable in Oregon is a long stored one.

Doug vV
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