Here is a photo of the locomotive at Knoebels. I have some other photos of it somewhere, I'll have to look around for them.
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| Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38205 |
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| Author: | Reading T1 2124 [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
I was just at Knoebel's amusement park last week (Elysburg, PA for those of you not familar) and noticed that mine lokie number 99 (probably not its original number) looked strikingly similar to CP&W number 117. Upon closer inspection I saw that on its builder's plate on the running gear it said it was built by Lehigh Valley Coal Co. as was 117. Both are 30" 0-4-0s, they both have like running gear and, the domes and stacks are located in the same positions. Unfortunately I didn't look at the serial number but I'll pose the question anyway, are they both the same class of locomotive? |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Get a refund for your yardstick, measuring tape, or measuring app. The track gauge of both CP&W 117 and Knoebels 99 is/was 48", a relic of Lehigh Valley Coal Co. days. Both 117 and 99 were acquired from their last operating home, the Jeddo-Highland Coal Co. at Jeddo, Pa. in 1958 or thereabouts, so there is, indeed, common heritage at work in this case. But 117 (now at the NJ Museum of Transportation) was built by Vulcan Iron Works, based in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, c/n 3512 in February 1925; the most I've ever heard of 99 was its purported construction (more likely "kitbashing" from spare parts, frame, etc.) at some unknown point by Lehigh Valley Coal, which used (and used up) many of these Vulcan 0-4-0T's. At least three other LVC/Jeddo stablemates are extant elsewhere in the U.S., including the Gramlings' 126 and two "lokies" at Ashland, Pa.'s Pioneer Coal Mine Tunnel. EDIT: Corrected |
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| Author: | LVRR2095 [ Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: Get a refund for your yardstick, measuring tape, or measuring app. The track gauge of both CP&W 117 and Knoebels 99 is/was 48", a relic of Lehigh Coal & Navigation days. The 117 and 99 were not L.C.&N locomotives. They were Lehigh Valley Coal Co. locomotives and used at the mines at Hazelton. The Lehigh Valley Coal Co. was originally owned by the Lehigh Valley Railroad but later had to divest itself of its coal mine interests. Keith Taylor (retired LVRR engineer) |
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| Author: | BerwickRailFan [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:19 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? | ||
Here is a photo of the locomotive at Knoebels. I have some other photos of it somewhere, I'll have to look around for them.
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| Author: | BerwickRailFan [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:28 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? | |||
Quicker than I thought, I was able to find the photos the first time.
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| Author: | Pegasuspinto [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
What in the heck is that abomination on top of the cab? |
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| Author: | J.David [ Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Dear Andrew: Did happen to jot down the numerals adjacent to "SIZE" stamped on the builder's plate or do you have a photo in which it shows up a bit better? It looks like the stroke is 16, hard to tell the diameter... Thanks in advance! J.David |
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| Author: | BerwickRailFan [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:10 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? | |||
These are the best I can get from the photos I have. We will be taking the kids there sometime in the next few weeks, I'll try to remember to get better photos. Only live about 1/2 hour away.
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| Author: | BerwickRailFan [ Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Pegasuspinto wrote: What in the heck is that abomination on top of the cab? Their attempt at adding a railing to keep the kids form falling off the top as they can climb all over the thing. |
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| Author: | J.David [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Hi Andrew: Thanks, that would be appreciated. From the close up, it LOOKS like the "SIZE" is 9-1/8 and 16. My guess is that the "SIZE" is the bore and stroke of the cylinders, but I could be wrong. In any event, 16" stroke would be consistent with other small locomotives, however a bore diameter measured to 1/8th" would be unusual for a major builder (but the LV shops were hardly that). My records indicate that No.99 was built using a new boiler purchased from Baldwin Locomotive Works. I have no idea where the running and driving gear came from, but guess that another LV locomotive (or locomotives) was a donor of major components such as cylinders. Thank you for your help. J.David |
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| Author: | Dave [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
My guess is they bored out an out of round 9X16 cylinder set and recycled it. Poor little thing....... dave |
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| Author: | Reading T1 2124 [ Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Because I'm curious, was this 48" Plymouth http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ash0.jpg a LV Coal Co. locomotive or not? |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Reading T1 2124 wrote: Because I'm curious, was this 48" Plymouth http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/ash0.jpg a LV Coal Co. locomotive or not? FWIW, this is a question best suited for the Underground Miners, Iron Miners (http://www.ironminers.com/mineforum) or a similar group. RYPN rarely turns up accurate info on anthracite mining equipment as that is a truly specialized sub-culture of railroad preservation. That's not a knock on RYPN, just an honest observation that anthracite mining experts tend to hang out on their own forums. Having known members of both the Undeground and Iron Miners teams, I can safely say that they know that of which they speak. Rob |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
In case anyone (especially J. David Conrad) still cares.......... A photo has surfaced online, salvaged from a photo studio in Shamokin, of this steam locomotive being put in Knoebels Grove, with its saddletank being removed and its builders plate visible: http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -xWTs9s4/A Unfortunately, I still can't read for certain if that's Baldwin 41883 or 41887. See also http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -KRJGPqc/A If someone wants to go as far as purchasing a print: http://www.daladophotography.com/ThomasPhotos/Knoebels/ Go there, and go to page 4 of the Knoebels photos. For the park train fanatics: http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -pXpQCNS/A (which includes the miniature railroad covered bridge washed out in 1972--this line runs where their live-steam Cagney now runs) http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -cCTvCLR/A http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -GB7xgRq/A This fellow also has over 100 quite interesting and intriguing railroad photos: http://www.daladophotography.com/ThomasPhotos However, be advised that the "collection" he purchased and is trying to preserve also included a number of "bootleg"/copied photos, including Reading Company photos, well-known Don Wood photos of PRR trains in the Shamokin area, and even photos taken or collected by a semi-regular participant in this forum. Upon notification, he willingly took down photos that we were able to identify as non-Thomas Studio photos. |
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| Author: | LVRR2095 [ Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Carroll Park & Western #117 sister? |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: For the park train fanatics: http://www.daladophotography.com/Thomas ... -pXpQCNS/A (which includes the miniature railroad covered bridge washed out in 1972--this line runs where their live-steam Cagney now runs) . Just as a tiny point....the Knoebel's live steam train is powered by a 16" gauge Crown Metal Products locomotive and not a Cagney. Keith |
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