Hello all,

I have been searching for info on the Pullman standard wood window sashes that I think were used in the troop sleepers. Haven't found much.

The sashes in our car were missing the lower rails and what was left looked like the glass was held in place with sash staples from the outside, similar to a sash with glazing points. In other words I don't think they were original, unless Pullman really made them cheap...Although somebody robbed all the lower rails from them, probably for the lifts.

Anyway, did Pullman invest Mahogany in these cars or did they use something cheaper? What was in these was quite thin.

How was the glass held in the sash? Push points or staples like we found? 1/4" bead? Was there a rubber gasket?

The dimensions seem to be the same as Pullman's open window coaches.

Is there a reference document for these?

Thanks
Bill

Bill, were you aware the Pullman Company's archives are at the Pullman Library in Chicago? Blue prints, specs, builders photos, etc are available.

BTW, the sashes were made of aluminum.

If you are referring to Newberry, yes I know they are there. I checked and they don't have much on the troop sleepers.

So, the original sashes were aluminum in a steel track? Talk about metal mismatch... This car had wood sashes and sprung wood glides in the tracks, even in the end doors. C&EI must have really worked it over! :)

Thanks
Bill

He may be referring to the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum:

http://www.irm.org/pullmanlibrary/index.html

The collection at the Newberry came from the Pullman Sleeping Car Co.; the last iteration after the car operating company was severed from the car builder. The drawing collection at the Newberry consists of items the operating company kept; mostly floor plans, with some drawings of the details of rebuilding and modification.

The Pullman-Standard car builders collection resides at IRM.

Yes I am.

Sorry, the sashes were steel, not aluminum.

Steel makes more sense than aluminum since the screens are steel, frame and all. I wonder how we ended up with wood since there is no evidence of the windows being disassembled and the glides look like something like mahogany. I think they are called glides. :)

Could it possibly be wood due to the metal shortage during war time? Have you checked any other cars, they're getting harder to find but there are still some around.

Due the quantity of these they made, I'm guessing variations could be possible, especially under wartime conditions.

That could fit too. I have been chatting with member of a group that has a couple of the cars and I believe he said their cars had wood sashes too. Maybe they were supposed to be steel and were made wood due to metal shortage as you suggest.

you guys do realize that there were several orders of these cars, with design changes between the orders. I'm certainly no expert, but there were at least two orders of sleepers, one with step wells, and one without, and also the kitchen cars. May be additional differences that no one has bothered to document.

Yep.

I am just trying to determine how to seal the glass in a wood sash if that is what was used on this one. I don't think standard glazing putty or something like that would have been used or held up to the punishment. How did Pullman seal their wood sashes?

Dennis -

You are right that there were two different orders of Pullman Troop Sleepers; the first with the step wells and the second without. But I believe that the kitchen cars were built by other than Pullman; AC&F perhaps?


Les

I worked on the heavyweight Pullman INGLEHOME, a number of years ago, and that car has wood sash. IIRC, the glass was held in with mahogany "glass bead" molding, which looked like 1/4" quarter round, but had a slight rounded edge on the side that met the wood sash. Both glass and molding were bedded in caulk.

This is exactly the same as I have found in similar applications. I found it was easiest to plane a board to the thickness required, mill the roundover on to one edge, then cut off the milled edge to make the strip. You could then mill the cut edge and so on and so on.......

dave

Two comments:

The WW2 troop sleepers did not have wood sash as originally built; they used a metal sash, Adlake if I recall. This applied to both the original cars with center step wells and the 1945 cars , with strap steel center steps. Any wood sash found in a troop sleeper is a post-war (and post-troop sleeper use) alteration, most likely done by the railroad buying the surplus car(s) for other uses (work train bunk car, caboose, express/baggage, etc).

Do not use any silicone caulk on window glazing or moldings. Use either an autobody caulk or traditional glazing putty. Silicone cannot be painted, and will eventually want to peel out in long strips of brittle rubber nastiness.

Howard P.