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| SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTMA https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37931 |
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| Author: | 6-18003 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTMA |
The Electric City Trolley Museum in Scranton will be getting an interesting donation; two former Brill work cars which entered service in the 1920s and were only recently retired by SEPTA. I believe these would be work units W56 and W61. It will be interesting to see what the museum will do with them. The cabs have obviously been updated and will hopefully return to their original appearance at some point down the road. More info in the link below. Good work by the boys in Scranton. http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/philly-to-donate-cars-to-electric-city-trolley-museum-1.1861997 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
I've been led to believe that this is a first step in another round of "musical chairs" of traction equipment throughout the region....... |
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| Author: | Finderskeepers [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Philly to donate cars to Electric City Trolley Museum KYLE WIND, STAFF WRITER Published: April 11, 2015 The Electric City Trolley Museum is getting two vintage 1920s trolleys for $1. The Philadelphia-based Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority is donating two trolleys to Lackawanna County after retiring them about two years ago. Workers used both cable cars manufactured by J.G. Brill Co. to maintain and repair trolley lines over about nine decades, said Andrew Busch, SEPTA’s public information manager. One of the trolleys is equipped with a crane for overhead wire repairs. “Whenever we have the opportunity to do something like this as opposed to scrapping it, it is a good thing,” Mr. Busch said. “It allows us to preserve the history and the heritage of these vehicles. SEPTA doesn’t have the space to do it ourselves.” Lackawanna County officials were excited to get new items from a time period whose artifacts are increasingly rare. “We really got our hands on something that we could bring down here to our restoration shop (near PNC Field), and when the funding is available, restore these vehicles to possibly run someday on our lines — and let everybody enjoy them,” said Wayne Hiller, Electric City museum manager. Commissioners first wrote a letter expressing interest in the cable cars in April 2014, but the trolleys predated the 1964 formation of SEPTA, meaning the authority first had to get permission from the previous owner, the city of Philadelphia. “The flat and crane cars are an integral piece in telling the story of urban rail transportation,” Commissioner Jim Wansacz wrote to SEPTA at the time. A few donors from a national network of trolley enthusiasts offered to pay the cost of transporting the cable cars, Mr. Hiller said. The museum already has 18 trolleys in its fleet before the new ones from Philadelphia make the trip, possibly this summer. The existing trolleys are in various states of repair, and Mr. Hiller expected the donations from Philadelphia to need restoration. He said he will have a better idea of how much work they will need when they arrive, but described the trolleys as “a great find” representing an important piece of Scranton’s legacy as the home of the first successful electric trolley operation. “Maybe in my era, I won’t be able to do anything, but they’re in our collection now,” Mr. Hiller said. “Down the road, if we come up with other grants or something, you (can restore and use them). They won’t be destroyed or forgotten about.” Contact the writer: kwind@timesshamrock.com, @kwindTT on Twitter |
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| Author: | 6-18003 [ Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: I've been led to believe that this is a first step in another round of "musical chairs" of traction equipment throughout the region....... Interesting. So what comes back in return? They could use another "revenue ready" car to spread around the excursion duties. PRT 5205, upon completion, is most likely the next to see regular rotation. P&W 164 is somewhat operable but needs TLC. Scranton Railway/Transit 324 and 505 are under renovation but are both several years away from turning a wheel. A compatible mate to CA&E 453 would be a good fit for the baseball games as I bet they could fill two cars easily. It would also be very reminiscent of the old Laurel Line. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Suffice it to say that I've run out of room on the scorecard trying to keep track of the potential equipment trades, "orphans," storage trades, etc. that have been proposed and discussed--or even speculated--among the fraternity, just as a fly on the carbarn wall. I'm not about to jinx possible beneficial events with advance discussion. But I'm also led to believe that at least one piece will end up as another "parts source" once things wind down. (They could never get that oddball to run right anyway, from what I was told....) As the weirdest example: I was told one "basket case" had not been scrapped yet simply because it was sitting atop some trackwork that scrap vandals might otherwise steal...... |
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| Author: | 6-18003 [ Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Well let's hope that everything works out for the best then. I really do think the ECTM would be well served to get a second CA&E car to accommodate the baseball crowds. I am thinking that IRM will not be open to trades, but Fox River or Seashore may.... |
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| Author: | JimBoylan [ Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
An earlier post suggested that Scranton get the Liberty Liner (with its bar section) from Railways to Yesterday to better cater to the baseball trade. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Ummmmmmmmmmmm.............. How do I put this.............. I've been informed that the two cars mentioned in this piece aren't even going to GO TO Electric City/Scranton--that some "iron horse trade" was worked out before the deal was even announced, and the article, in the words of a principal, is "completely wrong." I'm gonna go get some popcorn............... EDIT: NOW I'm getting conflicting info even on THIS. So.......... <EmilyLitella> NEVER MIND!!!!! </EmilyLitella> |
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| Author: | Thomas Cornillie [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
On the topic of making speculative suggestions to handle crowds for baseball games and other special events . . . IRM has Septa 55, an 67' long 3-door car from Philadelphia's Broad Street Subway. Here is a page from IRM's roster with photos: http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?rapid=Southeastern+Pennsylvania+Transportation+Authority=55 It's a well preserved car, in that it has been little modified and stored indoors since arriving at IRM. It has also had trolley poles added to facilitate operations. It is a great car overall and has real potential. However, it is often overlooked in a collection that has an electric focus on lines serving Chicago and the Midwest broadly. |
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| Author: | steamtown observer [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
6-18003 wrote: Well let's hope that everything works out for the best then. I really do think the ECTM would be well served to get a second CA&E car to accommodate the baseball crowds. I am thinking that IRM will not be open to trades, but Fox River or Seashore may.... Considering the length of the run in Scranton, it would be a great place to let the Electroliner stretch its legs. Judging by what I am hearing out of IRM, that costs to get them running and restoring the interior is really high and getting higher. |
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| Author: | 6-18003 [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Quote: Judging by what I am hearing out of IRM, that costs to get them running and restoring the interior is really high and getting higher. Then they would probably not be worth the cost to transport and rehab. That is why I am thinking that a sister to car 453 with MU capability could be the proper economic and logistical solution. And no offense to the SEPTA/Red Arrow fans, but those lines already make up the majority of the collection at ECTM and a little variety would not hurt. I am still crossing my fingers that Reading L&T 102 will get the nod for restoration after 5205 and the Scranton cars are out of the shop. |
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| Author: | Thomas Cornillie [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
There are certain characteristics that guide the selection of equipment for serving events like baseball games. Multiple large doors, seating patterns that include a mix of forward and inward facing seats, and interior surfaces that are designed to withstand wear (or be easily replaced or repaired) help in quickly cycling equipment between runs and reducing maintenance. More revenue and lower costs = more retained earnings. Another group of equipment not yet mentioned in this thread are the ex-CTA 6000 series L cars that were operated by SEPTA in the late 1980s and early 1990s. A number of these cars are still extant but are out of use. These cars have all of the attributes that I mention above and have the additional advantage that they use many PCC parts. In many ways these are still modern cars, however they also have design attributes that make them feel vintage. This page has some information on these cars: http://www.philadelphiatransitvehicles.info/multimedia/thumbnails-100-_1955_St_Louis_Car_6000_Series_El_Car_ex_C.html Note, SEPTA added a vestibule between each married pair to facilitate passage between cars. While this route may be a good place to showcase the capabilities of a CA&E car, the plush seats and narrow doors (by modern standards) at each end would slow boarding & alighting times and create maintenance concerns. |
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| Author: | 6-18003 [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Thomas, you raise an interesting point. Probably the same reason you suggested SEPTA #55, ease of loading/unloading and the potential for handicapped accessibility. I see from the photo link that she can seat 67 passengers which is a plus. ECTM would have to find a way around what looks like a pretty decent platform height. All of this is assuming that IRM would actually let her go. |
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| Author: | Frank Hicks [ Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
6-18003 wrote: ECTM would have to find a way around what looks like a pretty decent platform height. All of this is assuming that IRM would actually let her go. I wouldn't hold your breath; car 55 is considered part of IRM's "permanent collection" and the chances of persuading the museum to sell it are not good. However if ECTM is interested in investigating CTA 6000s there is a pair in generally good condition that I believe might be available at the moment. |
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| Author: | Thomas Cornillie [ Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: SEPTA donates two 1920s era work cars to Scranton's ECTM |
Another Philadelphia transit car that might be well suited for special events are one of the four surviving cars built for the Delaware River Joint Commission. Roster descriptions and photos can be found at: Frank Hicks's excellent database http://www.bera.org/pnaerc.html by searching for cars formerly owned by the Delaware River Joint Commission - an option on the drop-down menu. These may be the least remarked 1930s rapid transit cars still extant, which is surprising given their distinctive semi-streamlined styling and striking as-delivered paint scheme. |
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