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| Heavy Mikados https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36302 |
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| Author: | southern154 [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Heavy Mikados |
Are there any heavy mikados remaining in the U.S.? I am wondering because there are some light 2-8-2's running but no heavy mikes and I have not really heard of any. |
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| Author: | EDM [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
CN 3254 at Steamtown and the Grand Canyon engine, ex-CB&Q 4960, come to mind. Did you do an on-line search? |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
PRR L1 520 should count as a heavy mikado, although she isnt a USRA mikado: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_520 (PRR L1 class is said to be the prototype for the USRA heavy mikado) And there is a large Canadian-built Mikado stored in Depew NY: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/c ... nknown.jpg http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1140066 I tried googling for info, but I cant tell exactly where she fits on the light/heavy continuum.. CP 5361, Class P2e, built in 1926 by CLC, Canadian Locomotive Company..I dont know what her design/pattern is..is she based on a US-pattern? uncertain.. Scot |
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| Author: | J3a-614 [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
scottychaos wrote: And there is a large Canadian-built Mikado stored in Depew NY: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/mikado/c ... nknown.jpg http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1140066 I tried googling for info, but I cant tell exactly where she fits on the light/heavy continuum.. CP 5361, Class P2e, built in 1926 by CLC, Canadian Locomotive Company..I dont know what her design/pattern is..is she based on a US-pattern? uncertain.. Scot She's a pure Canadian design, contemporary with the big 4-6-2 at Steamtown; in my opinion (for what that's worth!) would be a nice running mate for said 4-6-2 due to the common heritage. What's the story on this locomotive? It's a good looker in my opinion, and I hope she's fairly secure despite being out in the open like that. |
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| Author: | rlsteam [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
If you mean the "USRA heavy" 2-8-2 design, that would not include the CNR 3254 or CB&Q 4960. There's Frisco 1352 which is good-sized but, IIRC, was a rebuild from a 2-8-0. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
CPR 5163 was used as a snow melter by CPR until retired. It was purchased by the present owner and is presently stored on a dead siding in Depew, New York, on the grounds of a defunct coupler manufacturer. The siding was disconnected on one end and the other end has a permanent structure built across it. It is visible on Google Earth. The locomotive could be lifted and placed on a live siding using a crane. It's really a nice looking locomotive, and I understand the owner wants to sell it for $100,000. Story we've been told is, he has stipulated that his heirs must scrap it to recover most of his investment if it isn't sold by the time of his death. This comes to me via somebody who spoke to the owner, but without means to acquire it.Love to see this one saved and restored. |
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| Author: | The Fireman [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Richard Glueck wrote: It's really a nice looking locomotive, and I understand the owner wants to sell it for $100,000. Story we've been told is, he has stipulated that his heirs must scrap it to recover most of his investment if it isn't sold by the time of his death. What someone else decides to do with their own property is their business, but I can't help but find this mindset bizarre...if he's dead, what does it matter if he gets his investment back in cash from purchase or cash from scrap, or not at all? Its not like he can take it with him. Being a frequent lurker on this forum I understand this would not be the first case of "if I can't have it, no one can!" in steam preservation, but this one sure sounds like the strangest... |
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| Author: | speeder3 [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Ex-IC 2-8-2 #1518 on display in Paducah, KY is, I believe, essentially a USRA design (Baldwin, 1914), but I don't know if you can classify it as a "heavy" Mike. Brian |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
If we are talking about large 2-8-2's, there are a handful left. If we are talking USRA Heavy Mikes, I don't believe there are any. One of the biggest holes in the collective group of surviving steam locomotives is the USRA-designed series of locomotives. Unless my math fails me, there are more surviving "Russian Decapods" which were already built and then drafted into USRA service than there are true USRA locomotives. There are a few USRA copies around, but only a handful of locomotives built to the USRA spec under the USRA. Rob |
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| Author: | tom moungovan [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
southern154 wrote: Are there any heavy mikados remaining in the U.S.? I am wondering because there are some light 2-8-2's running but no heavy mikes and I have not really heard of any. Regarding 4960. I wrote an article for Railfan & Railroad on her and while interviewing folks, was told that she was considered a medium Mikado. Cylinders are a modest 27" by 30" with 200 lbs. on the boiler. T.E. with unturned 64" tires was around 58,000 lbs. Wish that there was a heavy Mike still running...a Frisco 4100 maybe! That'd be something to behold. Not sure just where the WP 334 at Rio Vista Junction in CA fits in. She is considerably larger than SP 3200 class Mikes and the t.e. is around 60,000 lbs. not including the booster. |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Eugene L. Huddleston's book "Uncle Sam's Locomotives" which documents the United States Railway Administration and its dealings with the nations railroads. It's an interesting book and points out that although six original USRA Light Mikado's were preserved in the U.S.A., none of the Heavy Mikes were preserved. Although Mr. Huddleston's count on the light Mikes was slightly off (I believe seven, not six, were preserved), the fact is that none of the original USRA Heavy Mikado's were saved. Heavier 2-8-2's were built, including those of the Frisco and the Great Northern, but these were not USRA Heavy Mikes. Les |
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| Author: | David H. Hamley [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Having read all the hubbub in another string about creating the 53rd example of a locomotive that probably should have never been built in the first place, and having learned here that no example of the USRA heavy Mikado seems to have survived, I will therefore dare to make the suggestion that if someone is serious about building a new steam loco based on an existing design, would it not be vastly more intelligent to replicate a successful design? One that operated in many locations for many different operators. One that might if recreated actually find a place in modern railroading where it could operate? Or would be suitable for use on our equivalent of the UK's "Heritage Railways?" Yeah, that "other engine" has a lot of eye appeal to some folks, but when it comes down to raising funds I think feet firmly planted on practical ground stand a far better chance of actually getting something done. |
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| Author: | Dave [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
We are - David Kloke is recreating a classic American Standard 4-4-0 for anybody who wants to buy one. I've advocated designing an expandable design that could share common patterns and dies and be useful for anything from 0-6-0 to 2-8-0. Generic solves real world problems for tourist line operators - the China imports do that nicely to the extent they have been supported. I'm not sure there's enough of a market to build a one size fits all in any particular model right now. But - if a one off was to be sold it probably needs to have some more than generic defining characteristics to capture the attention of the general public - so, the beauty of the 1870 American Standard rocks with popular culture and ties into our national mythology even though the 1910 saturated slide valved 2-8-0 freight hog really built the country. You have the steak, you have the sizzle, and then you have generic protein......... dave |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Dave wrote: We are - David Kloke is recreating a classic American Standard 4-4-0 for anybody who wants to buy one. I've advocated designing an expandable design that could share common patterns and dies and be useful for anything from 0-6-0 to 2-8-0. Generic solves real world problems for tourist line operators - the China imports do that nicely to the extent they have been supported. I'm not sure there's enough of a market to build a one size fits all in any particular model right now. But - if a one off was to be sold it probably needs to have some more than generic defining characteristics to capture the attention of the general public - so, the beauty of the 1870 American Standard rocks with popular culture and ties into our national mythology even though the 1910 saturated slide valved 2-8-0 freight hog really built the country. You have the steak, you have the sizzle, and then you have generic protein......... dave I've liked Dave's idea of a common deisgn that can be streached from a 0-6-0 to 2-8-0 (or a logging 2-8-2?). Kind of like the Baldwin Standard or ALCO Standard locomotives. With different cabs, stacks, pilots, etc, you could cover a wide range of eras. |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Heavy Mikados |
Before this thread heads further down a weedy branchline, let me underscore Les's post. The Huddleston book is IMHO a must read for anyone interested in US steam locomotives. There has been so much misinformation printed about the USRA locos that what is a very straight forward story has been jumbled and tumbled into falsehoods and misinterpretations. Relatively few of the 12 USRA designed locomotive types were actually built under the USRA reign (well under 2,000). Of course, there were many copies and further refinements of the designs built after 1920... there were almost twice as many copies as originals! No locomotive built before 1918 is a USRA design. This is something often misidentified in books and magazines. The USRA didn't exist until 1917 and the first USRA locomotive didn't hit the rails until July 1918. Any locomotive built to these designs after the end of the USRA's orders in 1920 is considered a copy. From a historian's perspective, defining the originals from the copies is more than semantics. Rob Les Beckman wrote: Eugene L. Huddleston's book "Uncle Sam's Locomotives" which documents the United States Railway Administration and its dealings with the nations railroads. It's an interesting book and points out that although six original USRA Light Mikado's were preserved in the U.S.A., none of the Heavy Mikes were preserved. Although Mr. Huddleston's count on the light Mikes was slightly off (I believe seven, not six, were preserved), the fact is that none of the original USRA Heavy Mikado's were saved.
Heavier 2-8-2's were built, including those of the Frisco and the Great Northern, but these were not USRA Heavy Mikes. Les |
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