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Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35531		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
Coming here to pick a few brains only because I trust the signal-to-noise ratio here.....

Amtrak is currently planning an excursion on November 2nd from Philly to Harrisburg, Pa. outbound via Perryville, Md. and the "Port Road" to Enola, Rockville, Bridge, and back via the Columbia Secondary (not the PRR main) to Lancaster and then back to Philly.

What's unusual is that this is sponsored by Amtrak. That's right, no Conrail Historical Society, no NRHS Chapter, PRRT&HS, no NARP branch, no civic organization. And no steam, E8's, First Class cars, etc. Just a P42, Horizon coaches, and a cafe car.

Is this the very first time Amtrak has set up and operated its own off-route "daisy picker" excursion anywhere on its system in 40+ years? This is reminiscent of Reading Rambles or PRR's "Off the Beaten Path" excursions of over half a century ago......
Author:  Tom Parkins [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
That trip sold out lightning fast. Makes you wonder if that will cause Amtrak to think of doing more of these.
Author:  p51 [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
Amtrak sponsored a cross-country excursion pulled by 4449 back to Portland in 1977, after the Freedom Train was done at the end of 1976. They even put the Amtrak logo onto the GS-4's tender over it's red-white-blue AFT paint.
More on that here: http://history.amtrak.com/blogs/blog/the-1977-amtrak-steam-excursion
Author:  RSwinnerton [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
We are in no way happy about it. While Amtrak is totally within its rights to so as it pleases, it's undercutting our ticket prices by 40% which is do to them not having to pay extra insurance and already having the equipment. It puts in jeopardy the possibility of any future excursions on our part as we simply can't compete with their prices. Hell, they not only copied our 2009 trip to the 'T', they're also providing box lunches like we did and giving everyone a tote bag (we gave a trip guide). Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but in this case, they may have killed our excursion program and also a major source of our discretionary income. It sucks when one organization holds all the cards and no longer wants to play. What's a group to do? I suppose its time to find a new revenue source.

Sigh.....
Russ
Author:  p51 [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
So, this is the trip being mentioned, I assume?
http://www.amtrak.com/fall-foliage-aboard-the-autumn-express
Author:  Ed Kapuscinski [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
That's the one.

It's exactly the same as the one the CRHS has done, and very similar to the one that being planned to do again.

Gotta love it when your partner flat out undercuts you.
Author:  Heavenrich [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
Variations of this trip have been run for years (really decades) -- I first did it in the late 1970s on a Washington DC Chapter, NRHS trip -- only we started at Union Station, went to Harrisburg, did a run by on the platform in Lancaster, went out to Lehman Jct and transferred to the Strasburg, had lunch and rode back to DC via Philly.

Power was only the 4935 and for a bit of the trip double headed steam
Bob H
Author:  RDGRAILFAN [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
AMTRAK did a nice job of advance advertising in the greater Philadelphia area with a target of families, leaf people and such. They did not target rail fan's. WE found out about the trip in a local community web site.
The CRHS trip planning in 2009 was good but had it's flaws ...if you were a CRHS member the seating was AMTRAK,, if not SEPTA bombers with the "overflow". AMTRAK is/was aware of the high level of satisfaction as well as the very vocal need for improvement in certain areas. Many persons were confused in 2009 if AMTRAK or CRHS ran the trip, confused consumers let AMTRAK know the trips good points as well as need for improvement.
It is my understanding they may in fact repeat the trip if planning etc can be accomplished in a timely manner.
Sorry but a AMTRAK sponsored trip is just as good as a CRHS event.
Author:  Dengor [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
As best as I can recall, I have been on 3 Port Road Excursions:
6/6/1981 - Farewell to GG1 sponsored by Lancaster and Philadelphia Chapters NRHS
10/2/1983 - Susquehanna & Reading special sponsored by Philadelphia Chapter NRHS
7/5/2003 - Harrisburg Circle sponsored by NRHS and R&LHS (not sure which chapters)

Each trip and the upcoming Amtrak trip (which I have tickets for) has something different enough to make me come back four (4!) times. So I do not view the Amtrak trip as undercutting other trips. Plus the fact the the Amtrak trip sold out so quickly, even after adding extra cars, indicates there is a market for more Port Road trips. So I say "the more the merrier" on the Port Road and on many other scenic lines.

Instead of bemoaning the Amtrak trip, instead it is an opportunity for groups to promote their excursions to an entire new market.
Author:  Dennis Storzek [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
RSwinnerton wrote:
We are in no way happy about it. While Amtrak is totally within its rights to so as it pleases, it's undercutting our ticket prices by 40% which is do to them not having to pay extra insurance and already having the equipment. It puts in jeopardy the possibility of any future excursions on our part as we simply can't compete with their prices. Hell, they not only copied our 2009 trip to the 'T'...
Russ


Just out of curiosity, have you run other trips via Amtrak in the years since, or was 2009 the proverbial one trick pony? I could see, if the '09 trip looked like a good idea, and no one has done the same in the three years since, where they might be tempted to run their own.
Author:  Heavenrich [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
Dengor wrote:
As best as I can recall, I have been on 3 Port Road Excursions:
6/6/1981 - Farewell to GG1 sponsored by Lancaster and Philadelphia Chapters NRHS
10/2/1983 - Susquehanna & Reading special sponsored by Philadelphia Chapter NRHS
7/5/2003 - Harrisburg Circle sponsored by NRHS and R&LHS (not sure which chapters)



The 2003 trip was part of that year's joint NRHS/RLHS convention.

Bob H
Author:  JimBoylan [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
RSwinnerton wrote:
We are in no way happy about it. they not only copied our 2009 trip to the 'T'...
Well, they aren't using PRR Diesels, S.E.P.T.A. or Amfleet coaches, or private cars, nor marketing to railfans. I don't know which way the money flowed, but when the imitation Orient Express tried to run their cars on the back of Silver Service trains and the California Zephyr, Amtrak advertized on their site that Amtrak Guest Rewards Points would be earned.
I don't know if some of your extra expenses were for deadheading the Juniata Terminal equipment, or if that was a freebie in return for not allowing you to sell tickets in the observation car. On a future trip, what about using different locomotives and Chapel Hill as the observation car? It's has a 90 m.p.h. speed limit because of its trucks, so it shouldn't be subject to occupancy restrictions in high speed territory.
Author:  Newriver400 [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
I think you'll find Mr. DeWitt Chapel has, or is in the process of, upgrading the trucks on the Chapel Hill to outside swing hanger, inside side bearing trucks with cast pedestals, thus increasing the max speed to 110.
Author:  Rainier Rails [ Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
Newriver400 wrote:
I think you'll find Mr. DeWitt Chapel has, or is in the process of, upgrading the trucks on the Chapel Hill to outside swing hanger, inside side bearing trucks with cast pedestals, thus increasing the max speed to 110.


C&O #3 "Chapel Hill" is a beautiful car to look at, even just from the outside (I've never had the opportunity to go inside). Besides the Washington, D.C. Chapter's "Dover Harbor," and soon the "Chapel Hill," how many Amtrak-certified heavyweight cars currently have the upgrades necessary for 110 MPH running?
Author:  Gary Gray [ Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Amtrak-sponsored Excursions?
We started operating Amtrak excursions in 2009, tying in to the equipment moves for the "New River Train" trips run by Huntington NRHS and NCTM's trips. The first year was a very good moneymaker, but the returns diminished thereafter. Amtrak increased the pricing each year. Amtrak costs for a weekend of trips were into the 6 figure range. After losing close to $30,000 on last year's trips (first class with historic equipment sold well...couldn't hardly give "Amcan" coach seats away) and facing a $14,000 cost increase for this year, we decided not to bother....
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