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How Rare an 0-6-0
https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34617		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Jeff Livingston [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:01 am ]
Post subject:  How Rare an 0-6-0
In attempting to develop a budget the value of "assets" including equipment is required. While the dollar value of historic railroad equipment is abitrary at best it's still a necessary part of the budget. So, how many narrow (3 foot) gauge ALCO 0-6-0s with slope back tenders are out there? We have one at the Hawaiian Railway Society, cosmetic restoration 90% complete, on static display. Oahu Railway and Land Company No.12, ALCO Manchester, C/N 51165, Blt. 5-1912. Any others?

Thanks,

Jeff Livingston
Historian
Hawaiian Railway Society
Author:  J3a-614 [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
Well, you do have an unusual locomotive, in that not very many special purpose switching tender locomotives were built for narrow gauge railroads; that was something much more common on a big-time operation on standard gauge, which really fit OR&L as well as anything except track gauge (OR&L even had a double track line with electric semaphore block signals--a characteristic shared only in the US, I believe, with Boston Revere Beach & Lynn in New England).

Outside of OR&L and this switcher and any sisters it may have had, the only tender switcher in narrow gauge I'm familiar with was an 0-8-0 built for the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina, the famous "Tweetsie." That one's long gone, though.

Having said that, the value of something like this is essentially set by its scrap value, at whatever the current price is per pound. Price per pound was, interestingly, also the way locomotives were priced when new.
Author:  wesp [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
Others can chime in here, but on our balance sheet the only asset value for our historic collection is the acquisition cost, not the "value" of the object itself. The cars that we were donated have no cost basis other than the transportation cost to move the car. As another example, the recent cars acquired from Lake Shore are only carried on the books for the purchase price plus transportation.

Wesley
Author:  Randy Gustafson [ Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
For IRS purposes, particularly for donations, it's an appraisal, and for an appraisal, what counts are comparable sales, with adjustments for condition, features, and time.

For equipment, that can get really difficult. You'll have to search high and wide and pretty much know by heart or rumor what's moved, and see what information can be generated on for how much and when.

Truth be told, while many of the buyers truly appreciate the historic uniqueness of a particular item (the only surviving X-X-X of the AB&C railroad..) it's rarely reflected in the free-market prices. Condition usually wins in the rock/scissors/paper battle of determining the 'value' of an historic asset. Unless you get two organizations in a documented bidding war that actually bid the price up because they both want it and its historic....

When all else fails, the basement is looking up the gross weight at US #1 remelt costs, finding the appropriate market, and discounting the cutup costs. Sad but true.

Now outside the IRS rules, it's a lot looser. I've seen some very interesting appraisals over the years that had substantial historic value additions, particularly if the asset in question was being donated from owner A to nonprofit B as a match where owner A was not attempting to take the appraisal as a donation, but nonprofit B claims the asset as a grant match. You basically get into a ruling of whether or not the agency involved will accept the appraisal and qualifications of the appraiser.
Author:  Jeff Livingston [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
Gentlemen,

Thank you for your input. Some of our equipment was purchased and most donated. Scrap value is a good way to determine value of the majority of the collection. Those items that were purchased the price should suffice. Expenditures, restoration cost, could also be added. We realize intrintsic (sp?) value cannot be quantified but dollars and cents spent can be. I've got a clearer picture now. Thanks again.

Jeff Livingston
Historian
Hawaiian Railway Society
Author:  Brian Norden [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
For a long time, the concept among mainstream museums has been that you do not capitalize your collection. Buildings, furniture, computers, etc. - yes; collections - no.

I recall that - maybe twenty - years ago, when I was secretary of the Association of Ry Museums, the professional accounting standards board tried to require the capitalization of collection; the American Association of Museums successfully challenged and fought back and the board backed down. This was reported to be the only this accounting standards group was successfully challenged.

You keep and care for collections. Buildings and the other stuff is used, depreciated, and replaced.
Author:  Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
If you've ever watched "Antiques Roadshow," you'll see that they often elaborate between "auction," "retail," and "insurance" value.

We can scrap just about anything we have (or, conversely, make a nice bonfire out of it). Negligible value. Maybe someone will be crazy enough to give us money for them--see NKP 763 at Roanoke a while back, or a few other pieces still allegedly for sale. "Replacement value"? I think only the B&O Museum and the National Capital Trolley Museum have found themselves in that delicate situation of late, and probably only the B&O Museum was insured enough for that to be an issue with the one coach smashed to splinters ten years ago, along with artifacts like china cups and a tea bag (no, seriously). You can still, at this point, go out and buy another PCC or Lackawanna M.U. or GP9, or even a Reading T1. You can't get another Maryland & Pennsylvania baggage-mail car, or East Broad Top business car, or Western Maryland Pacific.
Author:  dinwitty [ Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
If you've ever watched "Antiques Roadshow," you'll see that they often elaborate between "auction," "retail," and "insurance" value.

We can scrap just about anything we have (or, conversely, make a nice bonfire out of it). Negligible value. Maybe someone will be crazy enough to give us money for them--see NKP 763 at Roanoke a while back, or a few other pieces still allegedly for sale. "Replacement value"? I think only the B&O Museum and the National Capital Trolley Museum have found themselves in that delicate situation of late, and probably only the B&O Museum was insured enough for that to be an issue with the one coach smashed to splinters ten years ago, along with artifacts like china cups and a tea bag (no, seriously). You can still, at this point, go out and buy another PCC or Lackawanna M.U. or GP9, or even a Reading T1. You can't get another Maryland & Pennsylvania baggage-mail car, or East Broad Top business car, or Western Maryland Pacific.


I'll just set up shop in my back yard and make you one...

you can find a value by asking some of these replica makers (and they are out there) they'll make you an estimate, and yes someone out there is making smaller steam engines just for the purpose of the operating museums.

But for a historic artifact that is irreplaceable, there just isn't any amount of money you can put on it.
Author:  dinwitty [ Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How Rare an 0-6-0
I find 3 NG 0-6-0's on the Steamlocomtotive.com site.

The early days of Narrow Gauge lines I am sure there were plenty,,, gone now...
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