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Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34450		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mgoldman [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
March 1943. Argentine, Kansas. "Freight train about to leave the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad yard for the West Coast." Medium-format nitrate negative by Jack Delano for the Office of War Information.

http://www.shorpy.com/node/14521?size=_original

/Mitch
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Mitch -

Holy Cow! Do you believe that this Santa Fe 2-8-2 is preserved? Well....maybe. I thought the engine number (3167) rang a bell. I had recently checked a roster of Santa Fe steam power which noted locomotives that were preserved. I was very surprised to see two Mikes listed, one of which was the 3167! These two engines were the ones lost on the Kaw River bridge when the Santa Fe parked a bunch of steam locomotives on the bridge during a flood to try to prevent the bridge from collapsing. Didn't work and three engines (the other was a 2-6-2 as I recall) were lost in the Kaw River mud. Supposedly parts were cut off a couple of the engines during recent low water but one Mike was never found at all. Could it be the 3167? Mr. Delano's photo has kind of a "ghostly" appearance. Might we actually be viewing a ghost?

Les
Author:  Txhighballer [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
I thought it was the 4076, the 3167, and the 2-6-2 which were lost in the river and never recovered. I don't think they were ever located, either. Has anyone ever tried to find them?
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Txhighballer wrote:
I thought it was the 4076, the 3167, and the 2-6-2 which were lost in the river and never recovered. I don't think they were ever located, either. Has anyone ever tried to find them?


Txhighballer -

I recall reading (perhaps here on RyPN) about recreational boaters on the river complaining because they would occassionally run into parts of the locomotives when water levels were low. So, during a period of extremely low water, they went in and cut off parts of two of the locomotives. The third was not found. Is my memory correct?

Les
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
I think this is a good target for an industrial archaeologist. I'd even go so far as to bet what remains is in fair condition. Well, there's a drought underway...
Author:  Les Beckman [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Dick -

Sounds like an interesting project. And possibly doable!


Les
Author:  Txhighballer [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Quick! Somebody write a grant request! To locate, retrieve and restore the only known examples of ATSF Mikados anywhere on the planet! The "little brother" 3160 Class 3167 and the 4000 Class 4076 provide concrete and definitive lines of evolution of a type of locomotive which I believe is rare in preservation. Now...how do we get this started?
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Tex- I think you're a bit "tongue in cheek" with your enthusiasm, but if it were me, the first thing I'd do is go to the closest State University, and arrange a meeting with the Dean of the Geology department. Ask him/her to call in reps from Archaeology and History departments to discuss how this might fit into their graduate and undergraduate programs. See if they could determine a solid rational for getting the funding written. I'd sell it as a state heritage project, a high tech training project, and a media boost for the school. People would like the mystery of location, the state of preservation, getting the wreckage out of the river bed, making a donation to the campus or state museum. Nobody says it has to run again.
I don't think it would be a hard sell.
Author:  Txhighballer [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Richard- I'm glad you caught that....it is a worthwhile project for all the reasons you stated. The question is...could we get a Kansas college interested in such a project? Does it have to be a Kansas college?
Author:  Ron Travis [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
One of the three locomotives has never been located. That is 2-8-2 #4076. It would be easy to find that locomotive with a magetometer. I wonder if it is completely submerged in the bottom mud, or if it is protrudes from the bottom somewhat. I suspect that it is very close to the two locomotives that have been found during low water conditions.
Author:  Txhighballer [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
My hypothesis is that the 4076 is either slightly upstream or downstream of where the other two locomotives are, or it is directly under the other two engines, completely buried. If a locomotive is compltely buried in mud like that, if you could dig it out, what would its condition be? Best case and worse case....
Author:  dpeterson3 [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
I'm going to be in KC this summer for work. Is it still possible to see the remains of the two that were partially scrapped during low water? (If its as dry as last summer, then the water should be pretty low). Is there any landmarks near where they are so I would know where to look? I treid to find picutres online, but came up empty. I figure it would be interesting to go see them if they're still visible.
Author:  buzz_morris [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
A book on this subject has been written.
http://www.rypn.org/RyPN/briefs/viewbri ... 200907.txt

Photos of the flood showing bridge and locomotives.
http://ks.water.usgs.gov/waterwatch/flo ... hotos.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ooocha/2906386958/
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/Image/top/event ... flood2.jpg

Of all the sunken locomotives this seems to hold the most credit. Also if under a layer of fresh water mud could well be in pretty good shape.
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Let's rein in the panicked excitement, well just a bit...
Frankly, I think it's a good project, doable, and could garner some real political and educational support. If I lived in the area, I'd push for it. Fresh water, buried in mud/silt, could bode well for a locomotive. Issues include the fact she's encased in asbestos, and people will "yipe" about that, though wet asbestos isn't nearly as dangerous as the friable fibers. How far could she have been pushed down stream?
By the way, I'd try to salvage what's left of the others, just for the parts.
Cool pipe dream, for certain.
Author:  Txhighballer [ Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Today's "Special" via Shorpy Photo Archive - AT&SF
Just for the hell of it, I'm going to make a couple of inquiries to some "bonehunters" I am aquainted with, and perhaps they can point me in the right direction. Best case, three locomotives are saved and preserved. Worst case...they stay put.....
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