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 Post subject: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:07 am
Posts: 328
So what is the future of this coal-fired, steam-powered rail car ferry? It currently operates as a working ferry on Lake Michigan. But that can't go on forever. So when retirement day comes, then what? Are there are any plans for a "safe harbor" for this vessel?


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:45 am
Posts: 366
Location: Skagway, Alaska
They recently announced it was going to continue to operate on coal fired boilers into the future. I wish I was a boat nerd but I'm not, but there are a few steam guys out there that know quite a good deal about this operation. The coal ash was an issue since it is dumped in the water at some point during the trip.

If you get the chance to take a trip, I've only heard good things. Someone else can chime in, but I believe there was a hope to use the ferry to transport a certain well traveled steam locomotive at some point in its travels recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2836
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Moving Flagg Coal 75 on Badger would be curious. Imagine a locomotive on a truck trailer onboard a former rail car ferry (the dock rail services were scrapped long ago).

It won't last forever, regardless of environmental waivers. The Badger relies on cannibalized parts from the Spartan. They will run out, and then the boilers will come up for replacement. Their cheapest option for this seasonal service is to convert the Badger to diesel. As long as they have a seasonal market, I don't think the boat will ever be made available for preservation. Plus, the boat has real cash scrap value.

Too many other boats have been lost or are threatened for lack of preservation dollars (Chief Wawatam, Lansdown, the Boblo boats, the E.M. Ford, etc.). My vote would be to devote funds to the City of Milwaukee in Manistee.

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 Post subject: Re: O/T Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
C&O built BADGER and running mate SPARTAN in the 1950s. Much like UP 838 is to UP 844, SPARTAN is a parts source for BADGER. I looked into making a trip on BADGER a few years ago as part of a road trip to Michigan and Wisconsin, but you can't easily get there from here on the East Coast in the block of time I had available.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:39 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: Chicago USA
The reported ash dumping issue seems much ado about not very much. The quantities discussed* don't seem like they should be that much of a problem to retain onboard provided a suitable holding facility is created. On a boat that used to carry x railroad cars I'm sure they can find room. Maybe the need to pay for disposal on land is the real issue.


* The amount was reported as 509 tons per year. I am estimating something like 332 or so crossings per season. That's 1.53 tons per voyage. Not a great deal. If you unload on one end only that's under 4 tons to store.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:15 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:09 am
Posts: 130
filmteknik wrote:
The reported ash dumping issue seems much ado about not very much. The quantities discussed* don't seem like they should be that much of a problem to retain onboard provided a suitable holding facility is created. On a boat that used to carry x railroad cars I'm sure they can find room. Maybe the need to pay for disposal on land is the real issue.


* The amount was reported as 509 tons per year. I am estimating something like 332 or so crossings per season. That's 1.53 tons per voyage. Not a great deal. If you unload on one end only that's under 4 tons to store.

Steve


Can't this ash be mixed with road salt for driveways and sidewalks in the winter? Or used in cinderblock? Mixed with ballast used as fill? I don't think weeds will even grow in it. It can't be any worse than some weed killers. I never had to get rid of ashes. But it seems to me, there should be some kind of commerical use for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6482
Higherspeedrailnow wrote:

Can't this ash be mixed with road salt for driveways and sidewalks in the winter?


This reminded me of my childhood living on the far south side of Chicago. In those days, many people still had coal furnaces in their homes. After a heavy snowfall, you could see where people had used the ashes from their furnaces to provide traction for when their cars got stuck. Street corners particularly showed a lot of evidence of ashes. And I'm sure that most of that coal ash eventually ended up washing down into the sewers of Chicago and into the water system. And homeowners used ashes to spread on their sidewalks in those days too to provide traction. How did we ever survive such environmental disasters?

Getting back to the BADGER, the wife and I had a family outing a few years ago which included taking the boat across Lake Michigan from west to east. That night, the various couples stayed in a local motel and the next day all went out to breakfast in a local restaurant. Just a small indication of how the BADGER helps the local (in this case Ludington, Michigan) economy. I can see why the folks there (and across the lake in Maitowoc, Wisconsin) want to see the boat continue operating. As an aside, our trip occurred on a day when the Lake was very calm. A most wonderful ride. The next day, we watched as the BADGER went west into a most ferocious Lake. As we went south along the shoreline in our automobiles, there were a number of surfers with their surfboards using those high waves. But the point is that the BADGER did run! My sister was going to use the new ferry this past fall as a short cut to Wisconsin and was told when she called that they weren't running that day because of "rough waters." So much for new technology!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:51 pm
Posts: 148
I rode a roundtrip on the Badger this past August for the first time in about 30 years. Nice trip, although westbound they managed to find an unusual wave that came up over the bow and drenched the passengers who were enjoying the sunshine. It is my understanding the boat has one more season as a coal burner. The company has applied for a five year extension while they engineer a conversion to burn LNG in the boilers. Personally, I would prefer it continue to burn coal rather than ride over LNG tanks in an enclosed space shared with open flame boilers.
As to the effects of dumping ash in the lake, if the EPA were to prioritize the lake's current afflictions, perhaps a rule banning an exotic mussel would be first on the list. According to an article in the Milwaukee Journal, the last commercial fishing boat had pulled up its anchor and departed northward due to the depletion of the fishery. Quoting some marine biologists, the ecosystem has been impaired, plankton, the base of the food chain, have been severely depleted. One was quoted as saying the Lake is probably the clearest it has been in 10,000 years and said there was a reason that Green Bay received its name.
Alex Huff


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:49 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:52 pm
Posts: 559
Location: Apple Valley, Minnesota
The Lake Michigan Car Ferry company has announced the S.S. Badger's 2013 operating season, so for this year we're good.

2013 Spring Schedule
Single Crossings
May 17 - June 8 * September 3 - October 13

Depart Ludington at 9 AM (ET) - Arrive Manitowoc 12 Noon (CT)
Depart Manitowoc at 2 PM (CT) - Arrive Ludington at 7 PM (ET)

2013 Summer Schedule
Double Crossings
June 9 - September 2

Depart Ludington at 9 AM (ET) - Arrive Manitowoc 12 Noon (CT)
Depart Manitowoc at 2 PM (CT) - Arrive Ludington at 7 PM (ET)
Depart Ludington at 8:30 PM (ET) - Arrive Manitowoc at 11:30 PM (CT)
Depart Manitowoc at 1 AM (CT) - Arrive Ludington at 6 AM (ET)

Special Shoreline Cruises
Manitowoc, WI - June 1st.
Ludington, MI - Lighthouse Keepers Association Shoreline Cruise - June 8th.
Ludington, MI - Fourth of July Shoreline Cruise - July 4th.

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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:09 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Faulkland, Delaware
It should be noted that her permit to dump ash into the lake expired. The EPA has not yet issued a new permit and according to recent reports the company has not yet made any modifications to the boilers or ash handling systems.

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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1352
Location: Chicago USA
Is it really that difficult to install an ash holding system and unload it at the dock? Maybe the real issue is not such a system but them not wanting to foot the bill for disposal costs on land. Maybe they can contract with a power plant to take it where it would be a drop in the bucket added to their stream.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
The quantity of ash is of much less volume than that of the fuel that produces it.......so, theoretically, it should be very easy to put the ash back into the bunker where the coal came from. Easy, of course, being a relative term.....in the days of firemen with wheelbarrows and shovels in pressurized stokeholds technically easy but physically demanding, and nobody cared about physical demands beck then. Firemen were pretty cheap. I have no idea how she's stoked or whether there could be a reverse flow of ash retrofit easily today. Somebody with better knowledge os the specifics could please pitch in here.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Maybe a conversion to french fry oil?.....

[runs from the lumps of coal being thrown at him]


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 344
Last News I saw on the Badger.

http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2012/dec/ ... -michigan/

“The EPA says it will make a tentative decision on a permit by March 1st, and will then issue a final ruling after taking public comments.”


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 Post subject: Re: Future of C&O car ferry, SS Badger ?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 91
Location: Michigan
Got an email from them yesterday announcing their 2013 season.
This is on their website:
http://www.ssbadger.com/content.aspx?Page=2013_information


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