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SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
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Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:05 am ]
Post subject:  SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
For the past several months, WRM's shop crew has been installing pilots, brake valves and controllers on Oakland Antioch & Eastern electric interurban trailer 1020 (Hall-Scott, 1913). The car had previously been restored as a trailer, but we needed a control trailer for the "out and back" operation on our restored Sacramento Northern (formerly OA&E) main line.

Attached is a photo of the first test train consisting of OA&E 1020 and Sacramento Northern motorized combine 1005 (Holman 1912). This is an authentic train of original equipment running on its original main line track. Except for the blade of a wind turbine generating electric power which is barely visible behind 1020, the scene is essentially unchanged from what it would have been in 1913.

Attachments:
1020-1005.jpg
1020-1005.jpg [ 175.01 KiB | Viewed 9341 times ]
Author:  artschwartz [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Congratulations. Your SN restorations and the CA&E and CNS&M restorations at IRM are about the best in heavy interurban replication that can be done. When will you add the "Bidwell" to the train?
Author:  Charlie [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Very impressive! And kudos to everything and everyone that went into making that photo possible. It got me to wondering how much work and money is represented by that photo, such as the purchasing and restoration of the line, its authentic electrification and the two superb restorations of the 1005 and 1020.
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Art -

We would love to get the Bidwell (a parlor car/diner) into the picture to replicate one of SN's named trains (such as the Comet and the Meteor) which offered that service. Right now it's fairly low priority since we critically need some steel cars restored for routine service. The stress of frequent use is starting to really impact our wooden interurbans.

Since the Bidwell was stripped of all its under-body structure and equipment (including truss rods, body bolsters, draft gear, brake rigging, etc.) it will be a tremendous job to even get it on rails as an independent car. I'd say we'd be lucky to get to it within the next 10 years at least.

Charlie -

Thanks for the kind comments. I don't know how much the initial restoration of 1020 cost (but it took a lot of volunteer time). The cash expenditures for the current work (pilots and control systems) were about $3,000. We had most of the parts in stock, so the main cost was a lot of volunteer labor.

Restoration of 1005 cost about $200,000 plus ten years work by a lot of volunteers.

Our SN line was donated by Union Pacific (it is rail-banked as "rails to rails" not "rails to trails"), we bought the rails and other improvements at scrap value.

Also, as you note, major expenses for re-installing the trolley wire and poles (all had been removed), and replacing most of the ties. I don't have cost figures for these items.

The biggest thing to acknowledge, though, is the fifty years of work at the Museum by a large crew of dedicated volunteers who acquired the cars and property, and gradually built the facility we enjoy today. That contribution is priceless.
Author:  J3a-614 [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Just a note to let you know that this big steam fan appreciates what you've done as well.

I understand you have something like 20 miles of road, and that you hope to someday be able to use all of it. If you get to do that, you will be one electric road that can really give a demonstration of what the classic interurban was really like.

Congratulations and good luck.
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
The question of how much of our 20-mile remnant of the Sacramento Northern gets restored to operation is often discussed at our Board's meetings. There are a couple of good arguments which suggest that longer is not necessarily better for the Museum.

The main problem with a longer railroad is that it means more track to maintain. Our volunteer track crew plans to replace 500 ties this year. Assuming 3,000 ties to the mile, our roughly 6 miles of operating track means that a complete tie replacement cycle would take about 36 years, which is about the normal life span of a treated wooden tie in our climate. This is a realistic balance of maintenance capability versus life of the ties.

Expanding our operating track to 20 miles would stretch the expected replacement interval for a tie to 120 years, given our current tie replacement capability. This is not sustainable. To keep that much track safe, we would have to contract out a lot of tie replacement, which we cannot afford at present.

The other major problem with lengthening the ride is that a longer ride can be a bit too much for young kids, and also for people of all ages who need restrooms. Our historic cars do not have restrooms...


During the spring, it would be nice to run trains east to the vernal pools at Jepson Prairie. If anybody has an extra million bucks for track restoration that might be possible...
Author:  wilkinsd [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
This is actually rather fitting for me, as my sister in law bought me the Signature Press book on the Sacramento Northern for Christmas, and I've started reading it.

This shows you the hard work and determination of the WRM volunteers. It took a lot of work to make this photo possible, in fundraising and in hard work. The combine is especially interesting, given its frame damage, and the work undertook to repair it.

Doesn't WRM have another SN coach? I think it's inside, but I am curious as to what the long term plans are for it? Maybe keep in MofW service configuration, or maybe in SN colors?

Great photo, very nice and impressive.
Author:  Howard P. [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Very nice. Original equipment on the original railroad it operated on. What could be better?

Howard P.
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
wilkinsd wrote:
Doesn't WRM have another SN coach? I think it's inside, but I am curious as to what the long term plans are for it? Maybe keep in MofW service configuration, or maybe in SN colors?

Great photo, very nice and impressive.

Yes, we have SN 1019, another steel Hall-Scott car identical to 1020. 1019 was rebuilt into a kitchen-dining car for MOW service in 1947, and has deteriorated from that state. It's really rough right now.

During the current re-installation of brake stands and controllers in 1020, we spent a lot of time examining the underside of 1019 to figure out where all the pipes and equipment were mounted since few clues existed under 1020. (And also, very few rail photographers ever take pictures of the underside of a car, except when a wreck turns one on its side. This hampers restoration research considerably. )

One restoration alternative is to just leave it "as is" to show what a car might look like before restoration begins. We're doing that now.

I don't think anybody has suggested the option of restoring it as an example of MOW service, thanks for the idea.

Some members have also suggested fully restoring 1019 as a motorized coach. Fortunately, one of our senior members scrapped another Hall-Scott (1018), and we have a lot of the necessary parts. All we need is volunteers, time, and money!

Of course the other major SN restoration would be the wooden diner/parlor car Bidwell, but that's way in the future.

A minor historical note - the old Hall-Scott plant in Berkeley is now occupied by the local BMW dealership.
Author:  Charlie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
While we're talking about SN equipment, I'm curious about the restoration of locomotive #652. Is that a cosmetic restoration or are they restoring it to operation?

One other question I'm hesitant to ask, but is the SP wrecker still extant?
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
652's cosmetic restoration is essentially complete. One member has "adopted" the locomotive, and is gradually restoring its systems when he has time and when we can get it over the pit. Currently he has a slack adjuster and an air reservoir ready for installation.
Since it was the parts-donor locomotive which was cannibalized to keep 653 and 654 working, it has some missing parts (including one traction motor).

The steam crane still exists and will probably go to a new home. I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter at this point, but its survival seems very likely.
Author:  LVRR2095 [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Just a suggestion....it would be nice to use full names for museums at least in the subject header. What exactly is the WRM? When I do a Google search on WRM I get results on a radio station here in Maine.
Please try to remember that there are folks here on these forums that may be from an area far from your's. Possibly a different country too.
Keith in Maine.
Author:  Al Stangenberger [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
WRM = Western Railway Museum, Suisun City CA

http://www.wrm.org

A little refinement to your Google search - searching for WRM Railroad brings us right to the top.

Your point is well taken, though.
Author:  LVRR2095 [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Thanks Al!
I figured the folks at Pine Tree Broadcasting were probably not involved in superb railroad restorations!
Keith
Author:  Bob Davis [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SN passenger train on home rails at WRM
Good point on acronyms and abbreviations. It's a good idea to spell names out; here in Southern California, "PE" is usually recognized as Pacific Electric, but someone from New England wouldn't have that in their DNA like us Red Car fans do. What can be even more confusing with regards to Western Railway Museum is that some of us Californians refer to it as "RVJ", short for Rio Vista Junction, Sacramento Northern's name for the present site of the museum. (this subject also comes up on Trainorders.com; someone will post a report about a railroad occurrence in "Portsmouth" and not specify whether it's in VA, NH or OH)
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