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| The first road-switcher faces scrapping https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32546 |
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| Author: | CPR4000 [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Trainorders.com says a group of Michigan Southern Alcos are to be scrapped soon: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?2,2634980 Among them is ex-Detroit & Mackinac RS2 No. 466, the very first "full-sized" (i.e., road unit horsepower equivalent) road switcher ever built. Might be considered significant. (There's also an ex-Lehigh Valley Alco S1.) This unit's existence has been known for years, but apparently the preservation community is not interested, since it looks like the story is about to come to an unfortunate resolution. Walt Lankenau |
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| Author: | Alex Huff [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Picking a small nit here, but the 466 is more accurately described as the "first four-axle, 1,500 hp road switcher". Ahead of it were the first A-1-A 1,500 hp Baldwin for the Columbus and Greenville, preserved near the Columbus roundhouse; shortly followed by the first MILW RSC-2 with A-1-A trucks. Still, a worthy candidate for preservation. A trivia note, allegedly there were times it and MIGN 1554, ex-CNW 1554, nee-Litchfield & Madison 303, the last RS-3 built were in Mackinaw City, MI at the same time. The 1554 has been preserved by Peter Smykla in Pine Bluff, Arkansas' Cotton Belt shops. Alex Huff |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
CPR4000 wrote: Trainorders.com says a group of Michigan Southern Alcos are to be scrapped soon: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?2,2634980 Among them is ex-Detroit & Mackinac RS2 No. 466, the very first "full-sized" (i.e., road unit horsepower equivalent) road switcher ever built. Might be considered significant. (There's also an ex-Lehigh Valley Alco S1.) This unit's existence has been known for years, but apparently the preservation community is not interested, since it looks like the story is about to come to an unfortunate resolution. Walt Lankenau That will be at least the second LV S-class lost in the the past year. #466 is well known in the Alco community. There has to be some reason no one is going after her. She'd be an ideal display at the new Schenctady museum. Money? Time? Condition? RS-2's have not been "over collected." Rob |
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| Author: | superheater [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
What condition is the LV switcher in? |
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| Author: | CPR4000 [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Thanks for the clarification, Alex. I knew that Baldwin built a few road switchers around the same time, but was not aware that they had beaten Alco to being "first." Nor did I know that the RSC's were built before the RS2's. I've been able to find the following build dates, which confirm that the Baldwins were, indeed, built months before the Alcos, and that the builder numbers of two MILW RSC2's preceded the D&M RS2's: C&G 601: Baldwin 9/46 D&M 466: Alco 11/46, b/n 73645, 73646 MILW 975-979, Alco 11/46, b/n 73643, 73644, 73647, 73648. With those six Alcos being assembled all about the same time, I wonder if which one rolled out first can be proven. Walt L. |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
CPR4000 wrote: (There's also an ex-Lehigh Valley Alco S1.) Walt Lankenau Its actually an S4, with retrofitted blunt trucks! which makes it look like an S2. Originally Lehigh Valley #166. built 5/1951 b/n 78725 To Precision Engineering (Dealer) ??/1969. To Steelton & Highspire #66. Refitted with Blunt style trucks by S&H (making it appear to be an S-2, but it is not). To South Buffalo #66. To Michigan Southern #66. http://www.frontiernet.net/~scottychaos ... tives.html robertjohndavis wrote: That will be at least the second LV S-class lost in the the past year. Rob What is the other one? thanks, Scot |
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| Author: | robertjohndavis [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Ahhh yes, LV #66 was the one that ran at Steelton in a hybrid LV/S&H paint job. The other was at Evraz Claymont Steel in Delaware, in the company of a D&H unit that was also cut. Rob |
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| Author: | etalcos [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
... and last night someone (I would speculate in the name of "preservation") helped themselves to the horns and bells and gyralights off of these units. All parts that were to be saved for use elsewhere, but someone needed them worse than the rightful owner. The scrapper relates that after word hit Trainorders and a few other sites, that there was a steady stream of folks trying to "purchase" these items, and probably/possibly scout the equipment for theft overnight. People wonder why they wake up one morning and something preservation worthy is gone without advance notice that its about to get gone. That happens at least in some instances because if word gets out stuff gets stolen. As my old man used to say "there is a special place in hell for folks who steal". ETA |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
robertjohndavis wrote: The other was at Evraz Claymont Steel in Delaware, in the company of a D&H unit that was also cut. Rob Thanks..I hadnt heard that one was finally scrapped in Delaware..I knew she was in danger for many years though..sad. And concerning "first road-switcher faces scrapping"..what about the Alco RS1? why wouldn't that be considered a roadswitcher? Scot |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Oh ok..I found the logic for the RS2 being the "first road switcher" in the beginning of this thread.. CPR4000 wrote: Among them is ex-Detroit & Mackinac RS2 No. 466, the very first "full-sized" (i.e., road unit horsepower equivalent) road switcher ever built. Might be considered significant. (There's also an ex-Lehigh Valley Alco S1.) I dont know who first came up with Rs2 466 being "the first road switcher"..but I have to say: fail. Quote: the very first "full-sized" (i.e., road unit horsepower equivalent) road switcher ever built. Who says there needs to be a horsepower rule? And think about it..what does the "RS" in "RS1" stand for? ;) Alco invented the Road Switcher in 1941 with the RS1. Clearly the RS1 is the first "Road Switcher"..there is no horesepower rule designating what is and what isnt a road switcher.. Scot |
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| Author: | Les Beckman [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Scot - I may be wrong, but I think I remember that the first RS-1's were delivered to the Rock Island. And isn't one, or maybe two, of those first delivered units preserved somewhere? If not the Rock Island, who did those first few units go to? Anybody know? Les |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Part of me, the rail historian, says "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...." The other part of me says, "Okay, we've got a bunch of rail history geeks here, some of the creme de la creme of rail history geeks here for the most part, folks who live and breathe this stuff better than almost any credentialed academics, and even WE can't really argue and determine precisely which and what of these locomotives fits an admittedly arbitrary pigeon-hole for categorization.......... and then they're deluded enough to think the general public is likely to not only care as much as they do about this arbitrary categorization, but do something with dollars to match the feelings of such ridiculously arbitrary geeks as well....." Sorry, all of a sudden I'm having flashbacks of "The Big Bang Theory" on CBS, and not just because "Dr. Sheldon Cooper" is obviously a closet railfan on the show........... |
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| Author: | wilkinsd [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
Les Beckman wrote: Scot - I may be wrong, but I think I remember that the first RS-1's were delivered to the Rock Island. And isn't one, or maybe two, of those first delivered units preserved somewhere? If not the Rock Island, who did those first few units go to? Anybody know? Les Les, the Rock Island received some of the first RS-1s. After US entry into World War II a number of them were taken by the U.S. Army for use by the Transportation Corps, converted with A-1-A trucks and used in such places as the Trans Iranian Railway. At least one of the former Rock Island units made it back to the United States and was used for a time as the plant switcher at the TVA's Paradise Coal power plant in Muhlenburg County, Kentucky. After retirement it was reportedly owned by a private collector and stored somewhere else. Last I heard there was a group trying to save it, having worked out a deal with the owners of the property where the locomotive is stored, but that has been a while ago. It would be the one of the first, if not the first real road switcher. |
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| Author: | Brian Norden [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
wilkinsd wrote: Les Beckman wrote: Scot - I may be wrong, but I think I remember that the first RS-1's were delivered to the Rock Island. And isn't one, or maybe two, of those first delivered units preserved somewhere? If not the Rock Island, who did those first few units go to? Anybody know? Les Les, the Rock Island received some of the first RS-1s. After US entry into World War II a number of them were taken by the U.S. Army for use by the Transportation Corps, converted with A-1-A trucks and used in such places as the Trans Iranian Railway. At least one of the former Rock Island units made it back to the United States and was used for a time as the plant switcher at the TVA's Paradise Coal power plant in Muhlenburg County, Kentucky. After retirement it was reportedly owned by a private collector and stored somewhere else. Last I heard there was a group trying to save it, having worked out a deal with the owners of the property where the locomotive is stored, but that has been a while ago. It would be the one of the first, if not the first real road switcher. |
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| Author: | scottychaos [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first road-switcher faces scrapping |
The first Thirteen Alco RS1's built, in 1941 and 1942, were requisitioned by the US Govt and sent overseas for WWII. all were converted to 3-axle trucks, making them RSD-1 units. Two are two known surviving! Brian mentioned above an original Tennessee Coal and Coke unit, still existing as OERM 1956. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1752212 (I dont think OERM 1975 is part of the "first 13"..she might have been built new for the Army) The other known survivor of the first 13 is Susquehanna 231:1 is now TXIX 8000 at "Museum of the American Railroad" Dallas Texas. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=406092 (I think the cabs were also modified by the Army..they probably originally had "normal" RS1 cabs) So one of those two is the "oldest surviving" road switcher.. built in 1941 or 1942. and which of the RS1's was in the fact the first ever built? the actual "first road switcher"? not sure..havent found builders numbers..but its not likely that unit still survives. Scot |
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