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It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31368		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Matt Bumgarner [ Wed May 11, 2011 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Acting on a comment made by an RYPN poster and connecting the dots with an off-hand encounter on another forum, I have found somewhat of a rarity in the southeast. No, its not a lost locomotive, but it is apparently a circa 1880's narrow gauge passenger car... For the purposes of protecting the car until our organization can acquire it, or the owner burns it or lets it rot, all I will say is that it is located south of Richmond, north of Cuba, and east of the Mississippi.

However, what I would like to know is:

a) Does the RYPN community think this car is significant enough to restore. Counting sills, MAYBE 35% of the car's orginal fabric can be used. Lots of damage, lots of rot.

b) Anybody have a guess as to the manufacturer of the car? Jackson & Sharpe; Billmeyer & Small??

Take a look at the photos attached

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Author:  Mike Stillwell [ Wed May 11, 2011 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
I say save it. Easy to spend someone else's money, right? ;-)
But more seriously, while a significant project, it would fill a hole in collection of the great museum you guys are building. Narrow gauge passenger cars from the SE are extremely rare. What do we have? The Tweetsie tripple combine, the W&W car that spent time in Florida (IIRC) before going to CAMA and the short chunk of the SS&S baggage car in Dendron. That's all I am aware of. While this car is bad, it looks like what some of the craftsman with the Maine 2 footers have started with, on some of their saves.

Mike Stillwell
Buena Vista, VA.
Author:  Bob Hall [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
I guess your first big worry is what happens when you try to move it!
After that, all I can say is good luck and hope you have plenty of help.
Cheers, Bob
Author:  Afboone [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Matt, I say you guys save it. Poop on the whole historic fabric talk. Save what you can and go for it. Re-produce the parts you need. There is a point when we have to call "uncle" and just go for the re-build. Unless we can put every piece left in a building with HVAC, then we have no choice but to replace parts. If there is a better material that can match the orginial stuff then I say use it. There are better composites and metal out there that are better and can match the orginial material. Stainless steel is a great thing. Pressure treated wood is great too!
Author:  Richard Glueck [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Some of the wood work is hand carved stuff, beyond the time/money equation in today's world. I agree with Steve. Saved whatever is salvageable, photo-document, measure, part-out anything that remains. Most of the car is lost, yet the manner in which it was originally constructed can be recorded and pieces saved. To let it go further into decay seems a greater waste. Be prepared for about 12 years of every weekend, and plenty of donations in materials, cash, and labor.
Author:  Scott Kwiatkowski [ Wed May 11, 2011 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Matt,

While I would like to save every thing that I come across, this is one I would walk away from.

Do an extensive photo documentation, save some or part of "good" sections for display, hardware, ect. and then walk away.

IMHO,

Scott Kwiatkowski
Pennsy Railcar Restorations LLC.
Author:  wrg113 [ Wed May 11, 2011 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
What about just saving the most salvageable portion (to one side or the other of the tree impact, perhaps?) and setting it up for an interpretative display. Maybe use a half or a third of the car with that portion lovingly restored. To attempt the whole car seems to be a bit much. Sometimes, with a project like this, it can drag the rest of your team down with it. I call these "quicksand" projects. Just like a General on the battlefield, before beginning a project you have to know where the victory is. IMHO.

No matter what you decide, good luck!
Author:  dinwitty [ Thu May 12, 2011 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Scott Kwiatkowski wrote:
Matt,

While I would like to save every thing that I come across, this is one I would walk away from.

Do an extensive photo documentation, save some or part of "good" sections for display, hardware, ect. and then walk away.

IMHO,

Scott Kwiatkowski
Pennsy Railcar Restorations LLC.


A few who may have tried on the lost engines of Roanoke did just that, now they are saved.

I would do everything you can to save it as is, try to repair it to a piecemeal construction, then build a duplicate, but give the car an appropriate fixup as possible.

Its original materials will not be good for in-training, a duplicate can, when you re-create the car you will learn and work out how to make and create cars like this and maybe go into the replicate car business... heh, hint hint...
Author:  weekendrailroader [ Thu May 12, 2011 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
I say save it. Use what's left of the original and incorporate it (using newer construction techniques) into an operable car. You could even change the configuration (e.g., coach to observation). This would be the perfect example of a piece that was "too far gone" to preserve accurately/ historically, but which could still yield a close duplicate of the original car while re-using original parts.

I say save it (maybe even disassemble it into chunks and move it), and rebuild it as a business/ private car for operation on a scenic or interpretive railroad. Now that would be a way to treat potential donors/ supporters to the museum/ group. Even perhaps make it possible for the car to be reserved for special events where a group may want their own car (birthdays, company events, etc.).
Author:  robertmacdowell [ Thu May 12, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Richard Glueck wrote:
Some of the wood work is hand carved stuff, beyond the time/money equation in today's world.

$8000. And then, after you've spent that... you own a ShopBot.
http://www.shopbottools.com/

Remember even though restoration may be beyond your group's capabilities TODAY -- does not mean that will always be true. A car gets a lot restorable when it's moved to your property; a lot restorable yet when it's moved indoors. Things get better. But if you scrap equipment you can't restore TODAY - then - you'll have nothing.
Author:  Bob Davis [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
If and when the organization mentioned above does acquire the car body, and (after countless hours and a few bushels of $$$) it is restored to presentable condition, they will have one heck of "BEFORE" photo display to place next to the completed car.
Author:  dougevv [ Thu May 12, 2011 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Hi Matt,

Please contact me back channel about this car.

Doug vV
Author:  daylight4449 [ Thu May 12, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
You know, you could use the surviving parts. With the effort I'm part of, we're trying to save the East Brookfield depot. Because it was torched, the brick portion (had no idea there were bricks in the structure until last week) will most likely need replacement. Think when you're baking a cake: Once it's done, take it out. Leave it in to long, and it burns. Basically, if we manage to save the depot, new bricks would be needed (to much heat on a finished brick and it becomes brittle), but other uses could be found for the old components that aren't usable in the restoration. When I was talking with Dan (our project leader) the idea to use those bricks to make a patio came up. If you were to stain some of those old boards, you could make something with the unusable components. Another thought: With the components of the remaining car, you could always do what the Ffestiniog did with Tailsein; use original components on a replica. It adds some sort of historical fabric to the replica, which otherwise would have been a new car with virtually no history, as it is a new car.
Author:  car57 [ Thu May 12, 2011 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
You need to check the remaining window frames and top deck window surrounds for car numbers and LOT numbers then we can start the search for its history. I would suggest its a documentation and salvage excercise. Let us know what you find, someone removed the bulkhead vent panel which may exist somewhere which would have had the car number, but the remaining door frames may hold the key too.

Mike Pannell
Cheyenne
Author:  car57 [ Thu May 12, 2011 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: It once was lost, and now it is found (Part I)...
Just to add.....The windows are paired very much like our Pullman so my money is on that, however other manufacturers did that too.
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