As it was mentioned before in another thread the F40PH preservation Society doesn't have a place to put a F40PH. My best bet is a museum but, I know it isn't as simple as just parking at the "Acme Railroad Museum." Who is libel if a kid falls off it, what does the museum get for storing your locomotive, who maintains it? One place I am looking (we will call this location A) is near by but it doesn't really have any track to run it on and it would be most likely just a static piece that hardly gets used. Another place (we will call this location B) I am thinking of asking has a lot of track, a maintenance shop, experience with "real trains", but is out of state and while I may be able to sell them on the idea of another running locomotive (assuming it runs again) in there eyes what's to stop me from one day coming in and saying hey thanks for putting in your museums time and money to our F40PH but I am taking the locomotive to another location. I could turn all ownership of the locomotive to the museum but then what would stop Harrie the scrapper from approaching the museum and scrapping the F40 in return for another locomotive that the museum wants more? I know this kind of stuff has been worked out before and would like some input into this situation.

I'm assuming operation is the ultimate goal here, rather than just preservation? If that is the case, I believe option B would be better. Perhaps create some form of long-term lease paid by restoration? If B needs more motive power (big if), offer them a 15 year lease with payment being the unit's return to operating condition and maintenance in that condition. Result is railroad gets motive power, F40ph gets 15 years of operation and emerges from that period operational, and, while the unit is not a museum exhibit open to the public, it at least still exists and operates. The key to getting any existing entity to operate something they don't own is making it either a) worth their while in the short term or b) creating a lasting partnership so they know the unit won't vanish out from under them one day.

I think you mean "liable." Libel is defamation by written word.

I would suggest that you, or any organization that stores or loans their equipment with a third party consult compotent legal counsel regarding the parameters of the agreement, distribution of liability, etc. The days of the handshake agreement for loans of any artifact are over.

Why try to save a locomotive and go through the motions of this classic restoration problem, and put the funding and support into a locomotive that has already been saved? Become a sponsor organization for a F40PH already in a museum...

NC Transportation Museum has one rusting in their roundhouse...I think the California State Railroad Museum has one as well. I can't believe that they would turn down financial or physical support for one of their objects...especially if backed by a Non 'fer Profit.

I can just see this becoming a GG1 situation...Too many saved, too few restored.

Though it may not be preservation in the truest sense of the word, to me the most logical way to preserve an Amtrak F40PH or 2 would be to follow the model that Bennett Levin provides with the lovingly restored and expertly maintained pair of PRR E8As. It seems that operation of these "artifacts" would be the most likely way to see these items continuously "preserved" through maintaining them in a way to provide the public a chance of seeing them do what they were designed for. Multiple operations are using the former Amtrak units in revenue tourist service including Grand Canyon and Cuyahoga Scenic though the latter is a borrowed former Ohio Central unit.

To me a pair of blue carded fully operational locomotives that could be loaned out for excursions either across the U.S. or at least within the region of their home base would make the most financial sense. This provides work for them to do so they don't become stationary money pits while still providing passenger power for excursions. They already have the plus of having HEP on board and are compatible with the current Amtrak fleet thus also being able to function with most PVs and regional transit equipment. That means they can just show up and pull most current passenger excursions that occur throughout the U.S.

Once they become too costly to maintain, then you can look for a permanent home for them to lay up at where they might either be static displays or function in a limited service capacity much like most museum service requires.

Just my $.02

Kevin O

The crux of this question is "what is your mission?"

There have been two F40's preserved outright elsewhere ((N.C. and CSRM). There are others in the hands of semi-preservationists (Grand Canyon Ry.).

Is the goal to simply stash them aside, or to maintain an operable set like Levin's E8 duo? If the latter, where will they operate, and why? Then the objective should be to find them a place where they can and will get a chance to run. Some possible examples: Rental power to the annual AAPRRCO special, or PV trains to the Kentucky Derby or Masters or similar events; an area hospitable to mainline passenger excursions (such as those run by Friends of the 261, the 3751 guys, or the group that runs the annual New River Train).

If it's the former, you find a museum that finds an Amtrak F40PH a relevant part of its mission statement. Potential examples: National Museum of Transport, NRM Green Bay, Illinois Ry. Museum, etc. If there were a NJ museum, that would be a place for a NJT F40. Ditto a Massachusetts Railroad Museum and an MBTA F40, or a Northern Va. rail museum and a VRE F40.

One of the signs of a mature preservation movement is resigning yourself to the compromises necessary for success. There is no doubt, for example, that a state railroad museum in Pennsylvania "belonged" at more historic and appropriate places like Altoona, Mount Union, Northumberland, or Reading instead of at the end of a "dinky" short line in tourist country. But the "commercial" success of the current Railroad Museum of Pa. depends on its presence in tourist country as well as its symbiotic "partnership" with a working steam railroad across the street.

I totally agree with the notion of signing up to restore/care for an existing unit in preservation. Many organization do just that, they sign on to care or a park locomotive owned by a local town, or sign up to care for one specific piece of equipment at a railroad museum. There is a group that posts here on a regular basis that is working with Steamtown to complete a cosmetic restoration of a DL&W steamer.

It might seem like a grand idea to get your own locomotive and then do the work but why not skip all of the "getting" effort and jump right to the restoration part. If you do a good job with that maybe in 10 years you will be able to use that experience, the contacts you've developed, and the trust you've built to take on a bigger project such as owning and operating your own pair F40PH locomotives or even a whole tourist railroad.

With no F40PH in your backyard you will need to be resourceful. The internet and today's communication technologies make it very feasible to make things happen over long distances. Everything you learn will help you down the road.

RDC...

I would like to complement you... I suspect you are a bit younger than the regular run of grey beards here...

You proposed a new society to preserve a F40PH... We (the grey beards) were a bit critical

You have established you 501c3... you are looking for models for contract to keep the locomotive at another site... You have a long way to go, but, are gaining our collective respect.

Keep it up...

Randy

I can say good luck. I've been trying to make a name for myself in the preservation community through the East Brookfield depot, so I can wish you luck.

Precisely the reason to partner with an institution. You piggyback off their insurance, which costs essentially nothing, as contrasted with having insurance of your own.


Well, that's really decided by the donation agreements you write. There's a lot of latitude in donation agreements. They can mean anything mutual parties mean for them to. They can call for return of an artifact if one museum doesn't care for it. Anything both parties are agreeable to. The question is finding a museum who will find the relationship mutually beneficial. For that you and your group may need to offer them something.

It helps a lot to know what they want and what their aspirations are. But be warned: Museum politics are very difficult and inscrutable than you could possibly imagine. No, I'm not talking about any museum in particular.

Given my well known, historic and somewhat ridiculous contempt for diesels in general, I am tempted to answer the question "Where to put a F40PH?" by suggesting that you park it outside a razor blade factory and wait patiently. But since I think your efforts are admirable, even if it is a diesel, I shall just wish you the best of luck instead.