Greetings:
Would someone with access to either the William Kratville or Ralph Barger books listing Pullman car names check to see if there was ever a car named "Sleeping Giant"?
Thanks in advance for your help.
J.David

And what about "Imperial Empire"? What series or floor plan would that be?

I always thought Steamtown should have a 12-1 Pullman named "McDade"

(Runs for cover...)

"always thought Steamtown should have a 12-1 Pullman named "McDade"


Back in 1995, when RMNE traded "Arsenal Tower" to Steamtown NHS, it was being prepped for shipment, including a quick paint job. The car's original name was "Mc Phail"....nah, we decided. And it arrived in Scranton just about two days before the "Grand Opening" festivities; imagine if the "McDade" had rolled into town just then.

JDC, is that to be the new name of the sleeping car from Vermont/New Hampshire? And no, according to my references, there was no car with that name, either in the wood or steel eras.

Howard P.

Well, there was a Pullman baggage-buffet-lounge car named SLEEPY HOLLOW. And a Budd slumber coach that was named SLEEPLAND -- it became NP LOCK LONG.

Thinking of the NP slumber coaches there was one named LOCK LOCKY.

That would be a 4-4-2; 4-4-2 => 4 bedroom, 4 compartment, 2 drawing room. And there actually was a car named IMPERIAL EMPIRE -- it was a NYC car built in 1940 to Plan 4069E that went to Mexico in 1960 and there named "Golfo De Darien."

Out of luck. There was a McDADE; but it was sold to Midwest Steel in 1962 for scraping. That was a 12-1 built in 1924. It went to the B&M in 1948 with the divestiture.

An explanation, please, who or what was or is McDade (you may notice that this inquiry is from Southern California).
Also: Isn't "Imperial Empire" a bit of a redundancy? Rather like "close proximity"?

Isn't that a Pullman from "the Dark Side"? "Dum-dum-dum-dumm-dedum"

(diving into a foxhole........)

Short and sweet: Joseph McDade was the Congressional representative responsible for getting Steamtown transferred to Scranton from Vermont and getting money allocated to establish Steamtown NHS.

If I'm not mistaken, he also got indicted, albeit about other shenanigans.

You all may have solved the mystery here, but if J. David is still interested I would look to the NP. The "Sleeping Giant" that I grew up with is a formation in the mountains north of Helena, MT which would be NP country. Brian made a few references to the NP in his post.

Just a thought.

Scott

In Cheshire, CT (not too far away from Essex) is "Sleeping Giant State Park", so called because the hilly formation looks like a big guy lying on his side (from a certain vantage point). I suspect that is the origin of the name inquiry in this case, as it pertains to the Nutmeg State and Valley Railroad.

Howard P.

Howard:
The bunk car at VRR was CNR "Lindsay", built in 1923 as a 12-1, modernized in 1947 to an 8-1-2, CNR road number 1814. Put in work train service ca.1970.
And, you are correct the "Sleeping Giant" interest is due to the rock formation/Connecticut connection.

Thread Hijackers:
Joe McDade had nothing to do with the Steamtown relocation. That was orchestrated by Scranton Mayor Jim McNulty. McDade came onto the Steamtown scene after the Foundation became insolvent and in dire need of rescue which was accomplished by transfering the assests to NPS.

All:
So does anyone have the Kratville or Barger books?

J.David

I prefer the term "thread drifter." Hijacker denotes violence.

Seriously, can anyone supply me with the bibliographical information on the two books Mr. Conrad has mentioned, by Kratville and Barger? Sounds like something I'd like to add to my reference library.

We have what I believe to be the aforementioned Kratville and Barger Pullman books in the Maryland Rail Heritage Library, according to my inventory spreadsheet. If I'm not up in Pa. on business tomorrow AND we have enough BSM members with keys showing up to "hold the fort" for a library work party tomorrow, I'll see what I can do for you all.

Greetings:
Howard P. was kind enough to take a look in the aforementioned books to determine that Pullman never had a car of this name. Thanks Howard!
BTW: In my opinoin, Mike Tillger is exactly right in his comments in re-rypn threads of late.
J.David

My sincerest apologies for "hijacking" or "drifting" the thread. I did not mean to clutter the board, or prevent the op from obtaining a fast, and accurate answer to his request.

I still wish to know the title, publisher, etc. of the two books referenced by Mr. Conrad and Mr. Pincus.