Some headlines from TO and other sites in case you missed...

Heber Valley UP #618 to run in OSL appearance a few days this year before her 1472 day inspection.
http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1943224

Steamtown will not mothball #2317, but give her a full 1472 day inspection. She will steam into the fall of 2009. Also, Steamtown expects 0-6-0 #26 in steam in late 2010, with a push on to finish B&M #3713 by 2012. They did not give a date for #2317's return, but the inference is it will be after #3713.
http://www.scrantontimes.com/news/1.34635

AT&SF #3415 made her public excursion debut. Suffered some minor derailments on the run-around track, but man she looks good!
http://www.saljournal.com/news/story/Steam-Engine-at-Abilene-052409

NKP #765 made it to North Judson, IN for the Hoosier Valley RR Museum trips, and even ran an impromptu photo freight. Next trips June 20&21.
http://hvrm.railfan.net/nkp/765_index.html

Mt. Washington Cog Railway is winding down its days as a steam mecca. Steam may run just one trip a day after July 1st. This is a rumor I have heard from a few sources. Nice pics: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,1942762,nodelay=1

CN 4-8-4 moving to John Street Roundhouse museum in Toronto: http://www.trha.ca/news.html

And what else... consider this.... just this past weekend, NKP #765, SP 4-6-2 #2472 & AT&SF #3415 were all running. Pretty cool. Oh yeah, and the L&N pacific, UP #618 and on and on and on... lots a steam to go support.

Rob

There is some sad logic to the announcement of only one steam engine in service at Mt. Washington. An earlier press release noted that the diesels can operate faster, reducing a 3 hour trip time to 2 hours (anyone catch that their ticketed experience will be shorter?). This creates operational challenges mixing slower steam and faster diesel trains. Further, if the cycle time (the processing time to complete a roundtrip) is truly 1/3 shorter, then, for example, an hourly departure frequency that previously needed at least 4 sets of steam equipment (3 hour trip plus 1 hour to clean fires), can now operate with only 2 sets of diesel equipment.

If they have 3 diesels, with a 2 hour cycle, they essentially do not need any additional locomotives (steam or diesel) at all.

Your thoughts on diesels on Mt Washington support the argument that diesels are better choice for an operating railroad. (faster, need less equipment to offer the same level of service, presumably less expensive to operate... it sounds like a 1955 EMD sales pitch)

The only remaining questions is does the presence of steam add sufficient value to the typical (non railfan) visitor experience to justify its costs.

It appears that on the Mt Washington operation, and on the Grand Canyon Railroad it may not.

I suspect many museums find steam worth the cost, especially for special advertised events.

The White Pass is operating two steam locos this year. They spend much of their time loitering at the docks and in town, providing a visions of steam, but letting the diesels do much of the work of hauling the crowds up the hill (they do offer a daily steam train to Bennett, although its opening this year is delayed by a washout) Is this a perfect use? (thinking like a business man rather than a fan)

Randy

Randy,

What the Cog and Grand Canyon are doing is giving everyone else 2 free case studies.

Will sales drop? I have my guess, but who knows? We will have the chance to see. Not that I expect they will share the hardcore metrics with the world, but casual observation should be able to provide some meaningful insight.

Any road with steam (or thinking about going back to steam) should watch these two cases very carefully.

Railpace claims the Cog will use steam on the first and last trips for now, but will be able to go all-diesel later in the summer.

Rob

Case studies yes - but limited to those operations with natural scenic wonders outside the coach windows. Certainly not applicable to lines running through average scenery, where the ride itself is the draw. Great Smoky Mountains hit a critical mass of passengers with steam, but isn't doing as well with diesel. Georgetown Loop did about as well with diesel as with steam. It would be interesting to know what the difference might be at D&SNGRR where the time machine as well as the scenery are draws.

dave

The case for steam: thinking like a businessman. All one has to do is take a look at the steam tourist railroad/excursion/museum industry since its inception, and you quickly realize that it isn't a highly profitable business proposition for the most part. Look at all the steam operations that have come and gone over the years. Look at all the steam operations that have dieselized over the years. Look at all the former all-steam operations that now run steam only on a part-time basis. Look at all the steam operations that have their locomotives out-of-service for long periods of time while they try to raise funds to repair them. At one point there were nearly 300 "tourist" steam locomotives in service in the U. S.; today there is less than half that number.

Yes, there are exceptions that have been very successful for many years in a business sense. But even the mighty Strasburg Rail Road has seen a decrease in ridership in recent years, and now has a more difficult time keep its steam locomotives running just from revenue generated by patrons alone. They've held off on restoring Reading 0-4-0 #1187 and Canadian Pacific 4-6-0 #972 to service because there's no economic justification to do so.

My gut feeling that the majority of steam operating in the future will do so more because of a love of steam by dedicated people than pure economic justifications.
Most of the steam operating today does so because it is subsidized in one way or another. We have government sponsored operations, locomotives that have been restored in part or whole by government grants, locomotives operated by non-profit organizations which rely on foundation grants and public donations to keep them going, and a precious few that have "sugar daddies" behind them. Each steam operator that exists today is a case study in itself, and we can learn something from all of them--no matter how they're funded individually.

Frederick G. Bailey

Spot on, Mr. Bailey!!! It's important to remember that the serious steam lover fraternity gets smaller and smaller every year as those who knew steam when it was an integral part of American railroading pass away. I was born in 1940 into a railroading family and do recall snipets of steam on the CNJ and some cab rides on steam with my Dad, but my generation is about the end of it.

I am a very part time engineer on the NH&I RR and can testify that the VAST majority of our riders who come to ride the "choo-choo" as a piece of their tourist experience in New Hope, could care less if the train is powered by steam or diesel!! We continue running steam 9 months/year because the senior leadership of the railroad loves steam. It's as simple as that. If it were a pure economic decision then diesel would win hands down!!

The recent decision by the Grand Canyon was purely an economic one even though they did their best to cloak it in being good environmentalists!! Poppy-cock. I spent some time there not long ago with long time friends in their senior mgt. and the cost differentials of steam vs. diesel were VERY substantial, and eventually won the day. As the old saying goes....follow the money!!!


IMHO-Ross Rowland

I sort of agree and also disagree.

A large part of the bread and butter tourists of many tourist railroads might still come if there is no steam; however steam still generates a load of extra enthusiasm. Steam still adds to the bottom line and we see a solid line of steamers being restored to service.

I also think that museums could do more to get the younger generation bitten by the steam bug. The Railcamp concept is a fantastic idea and similar camps could be run at a dozen or more locations around the country without saturating the market. Thomas has done a lot to turn young people onto steam but more can be done.

Since we are within sight of a time when no one living will have seen mainline steam operating in regular service in the U.S. I think we have to look at other historic sites and operations and ask what keeps them going. Civil War re-enactments still get new people to participate and there are a number of tall ships still operating (though not so many steam powered ships). Colonial Williamsburg has had declining visitation and their recent ad campaigns seem to try to tie them to other attractions in the area. The Biltmore Estate seem to be doing pretty well with a lot of related commercial activities supporting the overall operation (the winery, greenhouse and the Inn all generate income). To me, steam must try to attract as living history rather than touching on personal memories. We have been trying to do that with our restoration of Erie Lackawanna dining cars: there is a timeless appeal about eating a nice meal while in motion, can you do it in such a way as to also let people experience real history?

Rob,

I think this would make a great weekly column. I'd be game to co anchor if you wanted...

Dave Crosby

In the mid to late 1960's, I was involved with the White Mountain Railroad in Arizona. We ran 2 steam locos on the trip in the White Mountains. While a lot of fans came out when we ran in the summers, many were on the road chasing for photographs. A few fans did ride to record live. Most of the paying passengers came for the enjoyment and were not rail fans.

The problem for many steam operations seems to be the same: many fans - no payees. In the early 1970's the White Mountain shut down and the locos sold to another operator in Utah. Without adequate revenue, it was hard to keep an operation going, no matter how much the owner/operator loved the rails and steam.

For what it is worth - I got these numbers from a small museum operation offering a short, impulse priced ride experience in pleasant but unmajestic scenery within shouting distance of a large SMSA:

Online Sales as of time of this email:
50 - Diesel
99 - Steam
7 - Diesel
75 - Steam

I believe the figures refer to 2 different operating days on consecutive months. Steam and diesel alternate trips on operating days.

EDIT - informed 4 trips on one operating day.

Steam seems to sell out fastest, with diesel becoming second option after steam capacity is getting full. The unanswered question is, would total ridership be less if steam wasn't offered at all?

dave

I paid a visit to the Mount Washington Cog Railway last Saturday. In service on the mountain were the diesel Wajo Nanatasis (I still think my suggestion, Moospegdi, Abenaki for "moose fart", was better), along with steamers No.9 Waumbek and no.8 Moosilauke. No.8 is formerly no.4 Chocorua, sporting the cab and tender from the previous no.8 (now stored out of service behind the shops), but still wearing the number 4 on her dome. No.6 Kancamagus and no.2 Ammonoosuc were in steam outside the shops, with no.2 in light steam undergoing repairs to her valve gear. No.1 Mount Washington is stored out of service behind the shops, along with the now-cabless former no. 8. I imagine these two are unlikely ever to run again, given the current situation on the railroad. The two new diesels are nearing completion in the shop, minus the body panels on their hoods.

I guess in a way it was fortunate that I arrived when I did, because the next train after I got there (12:00) was the diesel, so I made a point of asking when the next steam train was, and buying a ticket for that one (1:00) instead. Don't suppose it makes a whole lot of difference to them, but at least it gave me a chance to make my preference known. Of course, as luck would have it, that hour did mean the difference between a clear summit while the diesel was up there, and sleet, hail, thunder and lightning, and near-zero visibility by the time we got up there! Oh well, I guess the next best thing to having good weather on the top of Mount Washington is to have really bad weather! It's all part of the fun.

I was told that the plan when the new diesels go into service is to run the first train of the day with steam, then run all subsequent trains with the diesels on a two-hour schedule. As for the reason for dieselizing the railroad, well, I thought it was pretty ironic when I bought a bottle of soda in the restaurant at the base station, and couldn't find a recycling bin anywhere to throw it away. So much for "green"! But I had it confirmed that "green" is indeed the motivating factor, it's just the kind of green that goes in the owner's wallet.

It has been mentioned over on the Narrow Gauge Discussion List (in a thread about the S.S. Badger's current ash disposal method) that the one of principals of Cog is becoming involved in an enterprise to manufacture bio-diesel.

Even if half the crowds show up for the diesel, the reduced operating costs for the diesels (single engine crew, sharply reduced fuel costs) may make the change worth it to the owners. Of course I suspect that the visitor base will change as those who are interested in steam will only be on the property when steam operations are present (even if higher ticket rates were imposed on steam operations). FWIW, they should electrify the whole thing and run it off a low head hydro installation, with regenerative braking for the downhill trains. Current distribution could be by third rail, then it would be way green. Yeah, right.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT