edit: Changed thread title

edit: I see a lot of views but few replies to this poll. I know a lot of you have no intention of heading our way but please give me your input...what would YOU pay for a trip like ours?

I've been a conductor/brakeman/engineer on the A&SV in Abilene, KS since '98. Our regular season trips involve a 6 mile trip to Enteprise pulled by diesel at about 15 MPH. There, we run around the train and pull back to Abilene. This all takes about 1.5 hours. Adult ticket prices are $14 for ages 12 and up, $7 for ages 3-11 and $0 for ages 2 and under.

This year we're going to add former ATSF 3415 to the roster, pulling the train one weekend a month or so. Since there are a few more operating expenses involved with steam, our board is looking at a different pricing tier for these trips.

Taking into account the ticket prices for ball games, concerts, etc, what do you think would be a fair adult ticket price for a steam trip described above?

$25

Some museums set ticket prices for a ride similar to the cost of a non-discounted first run movie price. Often they also offer a family ticket for two adults and two or three children for about 2 1/2 time the adult ticket price. You are in competition with other attractions for a lot of family business. If you are like many rail museums, well over half of your tickets are sold to family groups. Tickets for railfans alone won't support any kind of business.

Steam costs a lot more to operate than diesel locomotives. Most family groups don't really care what is pulling the train. If you're not careful you can price yourself out of the market. With a $25 adult ticket, a family of two adults and two children must spend $75. That's a lot of money for a family to spend in today's economy. You may find that higher ticket prices actually result in less revenue coming in. Additional business from people coming for a steam locomotive is unlikely to make up the difference. Some serious market research is needed.

fk

How should we know? What do your marketing studies tell you the difference is worth in your specific situation?

dave

I have some of the same concerns as fkrock. As far as marketing studies, I'm sure nothing formal was done. I'm just trying to get a feel from the message board community of what YOU guys would be willing to pay. This isn't scientific...doesn't hafta be. I'm just seeking opinions. Any input into the poll would be appreciated.

This is a tough question.

The Valley Railroad (essex, ct) charges $26 for an adult ticket for the train+riverboat, trainride being about an hour in and of itself, $17 for just the train. A lot depends on whether the route is scenic and just what you have to offer to patrons.

I certainly think raising adult ticket prices above $20 would be suicide-in the current economy no one can afford to pay $75 just in ticket costs. I would advise a $4 markup on all tickets for steam trains, such that prices are 18 and 11 dollars, respectively. Of course, the use of steam also opens up cabrides and other high-profit ventures. Perhaps merchandising and food service at your station could help to recoup costs (the railroad becomes a destination, and with the steam to draw people you could realize higher ridership and thus higher revenues outside of the ticket costs).

One thing I have always wanted to try is creating an educational program focused around a steam engine, turning the railroad in to a "field-trip" destination, where students come for a day, learn about history of railroads/the science of steam locomotives/some other school related aspect, then ride the train at a "student rate".

I'm still trying to come to an understanding of how any decision could be made to invest the resources in the overhaul in the first place without knowing by marketing studies that it was worthwhile in terms of an anticipated payoff ar the other end. Also, seems to me one can't seperate the motive power from the other attributes of the offering such as scenery, entertainment, etc. Maybe the type of power isn't important, as in the Grand Canyon case discussed in another thread a few weeks ago, in which case the answer is no higher a price, and the question is whether the current diesel offering is well priced in your market based on your penetration strategy.

dave

Most of this is just going to reiterate what others have already said, maybe a little more bluntly...
1) You're asking the wrong folks - find a way to ask your patrons or potential patrons. It may be tough in the off-season, but you can do some survey market reporting and questioneers to potential riders and see how much it would be worth to them before they know what to expect in the experience. Ask visitors, family, group members, coworkers and find a way to reach others. Ask them if they intend to ride alone, with a guest, family, or group - try to understand what price points they care about and what they are willing to spend on tickets, or in a visit. If you can get away with price points like $14 for kids and $18 for adults, it looks and feels a lot cheaper than 4 tickets at $16 - even though it's not.
2) Let price be an indicator - Don't be afraid to start with a price a little low but still above the regular diesel trips - feel out the demand during the season. If you find your steam pulled trains are selling better or quicker etc - then perhaps a slight increase in price would be in order next season.

Sully

In their case I don't think they are near any other tourist railroad but here in the PA/NJ area we have seen a "new" operation spring up along the Delaware River as a result of having no where else to run. Except after the leaves fall off the trees it is the classic "tree tunnel" operation with a steam locomotive pulling a rag tag string of commuter cars. They are getting a subsidy from the town based on their claims of bringing in tourists (the town has yet to do any kind of survey to verify these claims). Even though it can't compete with some of the other attractions within 90 minutes of it in terms of quality of the ride or equipment, one wonders how many potential riders to these other operations are lost as these guys over saturate the market with a bottom feeder pricing structure.

I would strongly recommend with our current economic troubles to not raise the ticket price more than a couple of bucks. There are not as many familys that can afford to drop $80 to $100 for a "scenic" train ride. I would say there are a few exceptions but that would be for trips like the Virginia & Truckee where they have added up to 15 or so miles to the trip. Even there I believe the price difference between steam and diesel is $2.
I would go easy on the increase and see how your operating expenses fair out. Then adjust accordingly.

Are current trains running at capacity? If not, keeping fares where they are but offering steam may increase the number of riders and thus total revenue. We are torn between needing to be sure that revenue is adequate and needing to serve our interpretation function by providing the steam experience to as many people as possible.

We at OERM have figured that the operational costs (not including capital investment) of our prairie steam locomotive are about $1000 per day. We sell slots to guests to operate the locomotive for an hour at the beginning and end of each operating day at $495 per slot.

It doesn't quite cover it, but being $25 or so bucks out of balance is better than $1000.

AB&SV is going to have a lot of bystanders and maybe one or two die hard fans riding those trips.

You're going to price yourself out of business.

Those extremely high fares for a 12 mile trip are insane, poorly thought out and will be detrimental to your overall operation.

AT BEST, you'd be safe to ask for $20 adults, $10 kids for steam operations. AT BEST.

Offer other options of direct offsetting revenue. I know of a local pike that sells enough caboose parties to pretty much pay for the days operating expenses...or at least half.

Make all the excuses you want, the John and Mary Public are going to laugh at those prices for your steam trips.

Please tell me that $45 a ticket is a misprint! That is almost what Steamtown gets for a 100 mile roundtrip. In addition to not getting riders, many people may be offended by a price so out of whack.

your railroad is only 5.5 miles long. I wouldn't charge any more then $25.00 pre Adult . I know you want to make a profit, but if you charge to much people aren't going to ride again.

Len.