Hi all,
I saw this over on Trainsorders.
http://www.scrantontimes.com/news/1.34635

Len.

Translation: 2317, You are the weakest link, good bye.


You've been added to the list of rusting hulks in the display yard.

My goodness, such excitement over a Part 230 1472 day inspection. Standard operating procedure under the FRA regs--nothing to see here folks.

Suggest a title change: Steamtown #2317 to go down for her 1472 day inspection

Unlike the rumors (like she's not joining the display line), management has decided to keep the locomotive in the operating fleet.

If anything, I figured the gang here would be ripping the news reporter for calling #3254 a "Canadian Pacific."

Rob

It depends upon what the 1472 day inspection entails as to whether or not it is newsworthy. A locomotive that has been well maintained can have the inspection done in relatively short order. In recent years, I'm aware of both the New Hope & Ivyland and the Western Maryland Scenic accomplishing said inspections in only a matter of weeks; nobody hardly even noticed their locomotives were out of service for the required inspection.

But then there are places that a 1472 day inspection puts a locomotive out of service for long periods of time. Such former steam stalwarts such as Illinois Railway Museum, Mid-Continent Railway Museum, Great Smoky Mountain RR, and the Minnesota Transportation Museum have been without steam for years because of 1472 day inspections; there's plenty of other locomotives out there that have been under repair for years because of the same Federal regulations.

Steamtown NHS, unfortunately, is one of the places that takes forever to complete a 1472 day inspection. B&M #3713 has been under one since 1994; Baldwin #26 since 2000. If evertything goes well, #26 will be completed next Summer or Fall--for 10 years in the shop. #3713 is anticipated for 2011 or 2012--for 15 or 16 years in the shop.

Who knows how long it will be before #2317 steams again once the locomotive is taken out of service. Sure, Kip Hagen says #2317 will remain in the operating fleet long range--but what he didn't tell you in the Scranton Times article is that there's an internal Steamtown NHS memo that places #2317 into long term storage. Yes, it'll be shopped someday after #3713's return to service--but it could be many, many years before that happens. And then there's the question of how many years it will take for them to complete the 1472 day inspection; given Steamtown NHS's track record on these inspections, it will likely take years. I'd certainly suggest that those who want to see #2317 in steam one last time for many years make plans to visit Scranton this Summer.

The real question we have to ask ourselves is will Steamtown NHS be able to field a mainline steam locomotive in the near future. I'm not sure just how much inspection time #3254 has left at this point, but it could be used up real quickly if that locomotive has to cover the yard shuttle service for any great length of time. Let's hope #26 gets out of the shop next year, and that Steamtown NHS is able to conserve #3245's inspection time until #3713 is ready for mainline service.

Frederick G. Bailey

Interesting about the memo, though one could pretty much infer from Hagen's remarks that #2317 wont be worked on until #3713 is done.

1472 inspections can be quick if major defects are not present.

I don't know that it is fair to compare the initial restoration of a loco like #3713 to an inspection of an engine that has been in service for pretty much the past 20 some years.

More than one person familiar with #2317 say she was an interesting choice to restore in the first place as she had some known pecularities usally attributable to her roll-over.

Is it better to keep her in the fleet vs. restoring #759 or another large gal? I am not going there. I'd love to see them steam a little Vulcan that gives a nice close-up learning experience. But then again, if it were me, I'd use the Big Boy on the yard shuttle - talk about a marketing draw!!!!

Ro

The decision to initially restore #2317 goes back to the Steamtown Foundation days in Vermont. Back in 1975, the State of Vermont was promoting the idea of the Vermont Bicentennial Steam Expedition; as originally envisioned, it was going to have three steam trains operating simultaneously on various routes around the state for both the national Bicentennial in 1976 and the state Bicentennial in 1977. People in the state government had the idea that the trains needed to be pulled by "big" steam locomotives, so when Steamtown was approached about possibly supplying the motive power #2317, CN 4-6-2 #5288, and CN 2-8-2 #3254 were chosen as the likely candidates for restoration. It very quickly became apparent that the idea of three trains was going to be too costly, and the state folks pared the operation down to one train operating over state-owned trackage. Of the three locomotives under consideration, #2317 was considered to be the best candidate for a quick restoration.

Work began at a feverish rate on #2317, but as with many steam restoration projects things didn't progress as fast as was hoped for. When it became apparent that #2317 wouldn't be completed in time for opening day of the Vermont Bicedntennial Steam Expedition, work was shifted to complete the restoration of CPR 4-6-2 #1293 which was well along in the Steamtown shops. #1293 wasn't the "big" steam locomotive that the state had wanted, but it was certainly adequate for the job at hand. Work continued on #2317 after VBSE trains began running--with the hope of having it in steam on VBSE trains later on. But then gremlins struck--patronage on the VBSE trains was nowhere near what the state had anticipated, and subsidizing them became a major political issue. The state decided to stop the VBSE excursions in early September, 1976; it also stopped further funding for #2317's restoration.

#2317 languished in the Steamtown Foundation shops for a couple of years--until 1978 when the SF management decided to complete the restoration on its own. The locomotive made its debut during the 1978 Railfans Weekend, and it was planned to use the locomotive in regular Steamtown excursion service in Vermont beginning the following year. But then the Green Mountain Railroad placed a restriction on the locomotive operating over several bridges on its line up to Chester due to track conditions--so #2317 spent the rest of its operating days in Vermont running only during Railfans Weekend events between Bellows Falls and Midway.

When Steamtown moved to Scranton, #2317 was the only serviceable locomotive in the stable available for the hoopla that welcomed Steamtown to town. It became a "regular" performer when Steamtown excursions began in Scranton in the Fall of 1984, and has been in operation most of the time ever since. Its hard to believe its been 31 years since the locomotive's initial restoration was completed.

Frederick G. Bailey

And I understand that the NKP diesel they use has issues as well meaning there is the real possibility of nothing running, unless the Delaware-Lackawanna is willing to lease an Alco or two.

And all God's people said.........A-M-E-N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ross Rowland

I'm not sure I'd use that for a title unless one were to explain the service comes at the end of 1472 service days, not that it will last 1472 days...

I agree, nothing to see here except some local news from Scranton.

And all that has been written above, brings to reason my pessimistic reply.

NH&I and WMSR both had completely rebuilt their locomotives prior to returning to service and in NH&I's case, 40 - refurbished in 1990, after 20+ years of 'limited' use - has seen several "major" overhauls to various components within the last, 18 years of annual service (a steam record for the NH&I's history, btw). WMSR took a loco completely out of service and rebuilt it. It's in esscense, "brand new" in terms of useage, compared to the 2317.

I would say, even the Wilmington & Western has a better track record at getting loco's out the door once they go in for their 1472 then Steamtown ever will, at least in recent years, and they used both paid and volunteer labor. Both 98 and 58 were returned to service in less then 2 years time once each loco actually entered the shop for the work, 58 was actually just a matter of months in the shop initially. 98 saw HARD use after its 1992 re-entrance to service regularly dragging 4-7 car trains up their curvaceous, gradient, 15 mph line with non-loading diesel "pushers" on the back end (essentially 100 ton dead paper weights), particularly compared to how much they baby it today. It was a tired, old, worn out engine when it went in a few years back for its major work.

The article states that Steamtown says the 2317 will not be a priority once it is taken out of servce...that the 26 and the 3713 are taking and will take that priority. I would imagine that if the 3254 goes down after those aformentioned loco's return to service, that it too will take priority over the 2317, since it is the "work horse" of their current operations. And once that would be completed, you will hear about how the NPS see's no need to rebuild the 2317 since it has the 'brand new' 3713 up and running with the 3254 and the 26 for yard duty..."why waste money *cough* on another steam loco?"

The domino effect.

I almost want to say we'll see the 1361 back in service before 2317 (yes, I know that its not a Steamtown owned or worked on Loco) considering all the debacle it has raised.

As I said, 2317, you are the weakest link...good bye. You're a display now, please join your other predecessors of operating Steamtown loco's (RWV 15, CN 42) in rusting away to oblivion.

I don't believe that the #3254 was in the Steamtown collection in 1975. It was probably still on display in Ashland, PA. Later, Sloan Cornell bought it for the Gettysburg RR. Then around 1987-88, Sloan traded it to Steamtown for the #1278.

Matt

Matt,

You are indeed right. The CN 2-8-2 under consideration for the VBSE in 1975 was #3377. #3254 came to Steamtown as an operating locomotive in 1987.

Frederick G. Bailey

So how many more trips and which ones can we expect from 2317 this year? I went back in the Fall of '07 to see her but 3254 had to take her place due to a bad pony truck bearing as I recall.

I agree, we will probably not see 2317 run again for many, many years. Too bad.

(I also cannot believe #26 has been out of service now for approx. nine years. That is so sad.)