White Pass Diesel Rebuilds

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Wed May 20, 2009 4:38 pm

Is anyone shedding a tear over the end of Alco diesel engines at White Pass? Is it a significant preservation issue?

kalvingp30fan · **Joined:** Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:59 pm **Posts:** 14

What? I have not heard anything about this yet. Are they just rebuilding them or are they going to scrap most of the locomotives?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV · **Posted:** Wed May 20, 2009 5:10 pm

Quoting part of today's subscriber-only Trains.com Newswire:

Quote:

Coast Engine & Equipment Co. has begun turning out rebuilt White Pass & Yukon 3-foot-gauge shovelnose diesels. When the project is done, WP&Y's entire shovelnose fleet will cycle through the program.

General Electric built the diesels in the 1950s with Alco prime movers. As part of the rebuild, CEECO trades them out for Cummins diesel prime movers. The new engines meet Environmental Protection Agency Tier 3 standards.

gbrewer · **Joined:** Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:30 am **Posts:** 150

I don't think the White Pass can spare any locomotives. The GEs are simply being rebuilt. They probably need more locomotives if they could find any.

Glen Brewer
Gold Rush Narrow Gauge
http://homestaydenver.com/WhitePass

JohnC · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:20 pm **Posts:** 217

softwerkslex wrote:

Is anyone shedding a tear over the end of Alco diesel engines at White Pass? Is it a significant preservation issue?

There are only 2 GE locomotives being rebuilt. With Coast Engine out of business now, it is doubtful, they will do more anytime soon.

Despite the Alco diesels age, they are better suited for that environment. FM/Alco could sell them "New" 6 cylinder engines that are EPA compliant for tier II emissions.

The engines put in the two that went to Coast engine are truck engines which may last 1/2 as long as the Alco engines did.

Randy Hees · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2009 12:49 am

I don't know if this is a preservation issue... the railroad (not railroad museum, railroad) is just doing what railroads do, rebuilt equipment to current standards to extend its life. Is this substantially different than the SP Grip program, or some of the Paducah shops rebuilds?

In this case the rebuild slightly changes the roof profile, and they have recently been changing the rear steps on these locos, but they still are recognizable for what they are. These locos were built between 1954 and 1963, so they are anywhere from 46 to 55 years old. While they have been well cared for, they have been heavily used. Some have body cancer... In this case rebuilding is preserving... just not museum preservation.

White Pass handled 450,000 passengers a couple of years ago... With their traffic, and their operating conditions they are not looking to preserve for preservation's sake... They are railroaders incorporating modern technology to improve operating efficiency.

White Pass is a bit unique because they run so much old equipment... they have several passenger cars which trace their origin to the 1880's... but they have been rebuilt with steel center sills and platforms, and steel frame roller bearing trucks. Since their core business is tourists they do market their heritage, hence two steam engines on the roster.

They are adding more passenger cars this year, and I suspect would add locomotives if they could find something available. I would not be surprised to see them gradually phase out the older passenger cars... I would also not be surprised to see them rebuild the rest of the locomotives in house using the two units as examples.

NH0401 · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2009 10:26 pm

An image of the finished product:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 742&nseq=0

DPK

tomgears · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2009 10:30 am

As Randy said, this is not really different from the service life extension projects done a thousand times by railroads. The finished product looks fine. The tourists who pay the bills will never know the difference. The truck engines might not hold up, only time will tell.

NH0401 · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2009 11:35 am

The new diesel engine is is NOT a truck engine. Cummins has a railroad diesel engine line, with HQ located in the UK.

These engines have been sold into many different markets save the Americas.

DPK

softwerkslex · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2009 5:08 pm

I guess my question hinges on a related question: What is defined by "preserving" a diesel locomotive? Are you interested only in the carbody, or does the prime mover compose a major element?

Yes, the carbodies are remaining, but I wondered if anyone felt a loss due to the new prime movers?

JohnC · **Joined:** Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:20 pm **Posts:** 217

NH0401 wrote:

The new diesel engine is is NOT a truck engine. Cummins has a railroad diesel engine line, with HQ located in the UK.

These engines have been sold into many different markets save the Americas.

DPK

However, according to their website, they ARE truck engines modified for railroad use.

Randy Hees · **Posted:** Fri May 22, 2009 5:50 pm

softwerkslex wrote:

I guess my question hinges on a related question: What is defined by "preserving" a diesel locomotive? Are you interested only in the carbody, or does the prime mover compose a major element?

Yes, the carbodies are remaining, but I wondered if anyone felt a loss due to the new prime movers?

There at two answers to your question;

First, the railroad does not consider this preservation...

Second, if these were being preserved in a museum setting, the prime mover might be important, depending on the interpretive message... If the presentation is about the design, then possibly... but if you were simply parking it showing what replaced steam, maybe not, and if the message was about the long service life these engines have experienced, the new prime mover might better illustrate that concept. Not all museum railroad equipment should be restored to its as new, just out of the factory appearance... Instead you can embrace the changes the artifact underwent while in service. In our collection we have cars restored to look as they did 11, 19, 22, and 81 years after they left the builders plant... With the changes that come with operating history. We have two cars which will be restored to look as it did when new (when we finally restore them)

The California State Railroad Museum is saving a SP SD-45(?) based on it being subject to the GRIP rebuild program at the Sacramento Shops, where it will be displayed. The D&RG K37 locomotives (8 locomotives at 4 sites) are all narrow gauge locomotives rebuilt from standard gauge locomotives... If they hadn't been rebuilt, they likely wouldn't have survived to be displayed.