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| backhead stokers https://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25370 |
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| Author: | Raymond Dewley [ Fri May 30, 2008 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | backhead stokers |
who made the stokers that pass through the backhead of the boiler and does any body have any info or weblinks on them? thanks, Ray |
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| Author: | david griner [ Fri May 30, 2008 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
There were a number of manufacturers, some of the more well known being: The Standard Stoker Elvin Hanna Berkley Street, etc. Yes, there are still technical manuals to be had, however they are getting harder to find, especially the lesser known types. Detriot Stoker is yet in business, albeit, not doing much re locomotives. Respectfully, Dave Griner |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Fri May 30, 2008 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Ray, the Street Stoker was a mechanical kluge using chain and conveyor buckets in large tubes running around the backhead-- a real Rube Goldberg contraption, from the photos I've seen of it. Those big PRR 2-8-8-0s had Streets, I think; the stokers were as successful as the rest of the locomotive. The Elvin was a design that distributed the coal at the door opening, just under the door, somewhat like the Standard model B (later called the "MB" stoker-- NKP and PM berks have this one). But the Elvin used two "shovels" working like a pair of opposed winshield wipers to throw the coal over the grate and mimic the action of a human fireman. Elvins were out of favor by the mid-20s, but were in use into the late 40s. Hanna and Berkley were designs based on the Standard Stoker Company's BK and HT types with just enough patent-infringement-avoiding differences. N&W used Berkleys extensively; they were made in Norfolk, I think. Howard P. |
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| Author: | Raymond Dewley [ Sat May 31, 2008 6:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Thanks for the info, guys. I was specifically wondering bout NKP 587's stoker at ITM. I saw it on a cab ride video and was intrigued but it. |
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| Author: | whodom [ Sat May 31, 2008 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Howard P. wrote: The Elvin was a design that distributed the coal at the door opening, just under the door, somewhat like the Standard model B (later called the "MB" stoker-- NKP and PM berks have this one). But the Elvin used two "shovels" working like a pair of opposed winshield wipers to throw the coal over the grate and mimic the action of a human fireman. Elvins were out of favor by the mid-20s, but were in use into the late 40s.
Howard, Ing. L. D. Porta spent quite a bit of time studying stokers and thought that the Elvin stokers had a significant advantage over the more popular types. Where engines were small enough to allow it, hand-firing usually showed a significant efficiency advantage over stoker firing. This was apparently due to the fact that most stokers ground the coal finely and used steam jets to distribute it across the firebed. The finely-ground coal particles could easily be sucked up by the draft and into the flues before they even had a chance to hit the firebed. The steam jets used a significant amount of steam plus they reduced the drafting efficiency of the locomotive (steam doesn't support combustion and displaces air which does). The Elvin stoker didn't crush the coal so finely and the paddles emulated hand-firing to distribute the coal across the firebed. As far as existing Elvins, IIRC, a former Seaboard Russian Decapod at the NC Museum of Transportation has an Elvin; does anyone know of any others? Howard- do you know when Elvin stopped producing stokers or do you have any other details on the company? |
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| Author: | BILL [ Sat May 31, 2008 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
That'd be a Duplex Stoker on #587. |
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| Author: | argentina [ Sat May 31, 2008 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
More on the Elvin here: http://www.martynbane.co.uk/modernsteam/tech/elvin.htm |
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| Author: | steamerdon [ Sat May 31, 2008 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Seeing the interest in these stokers I have listed a booklet on The Elvin Mechanical Stoker for sale on eBay. I have some other stoker books and other steam locomotive technical books that I will be listing shortly. |
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| Author: | Raymond Dewley [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Thanks BILL. I found the patent for it for those who may be interested. http://www.google.com/patents?id=iYdOAA ... lex+stoker a question I have is how would the firebed be contoured to make the perimer deeper than the center for sheet protection with the paddle type stokers that simply fling hte coal onto the firebed? |
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| Author: | Howard P. [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Hugh, the only thing I have on the Elvin is a copy of the manual shown in Marty Bane's link. One other reference I have is in a batch of old Jersey Central transcripts of "investigations" of operating personnel, that I picked up off the floor of the old Communipaw Engine Terminal office building shortly before it was flattened in 1977. Reading through these brittle pages from the 1940s, there were the usual crews being disciplined for various rules infractions, and for delays to trains. In that category, there were numerous instances of the big CNJ 2-8-2s stalling for steam on the road due to malfunctioning Elvin stokers (paddle trouble being a recurring theme). Howard P. |
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| Author: | Scott [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
I have a video of the restoration of the MILW 261 which discusses the stoker. If I recall, it is of the type that uses steam to spray the coal thoughout the firebox. Can someone elaborate? Thanks Scott |
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| Author: | Ed Selinsky [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: backhead stokers |
Scott wrote: I have a video of the restoration of the MILW 261 which discusses the stoker. If I recall, it is of the type that uses steam to spray the coal thoughout the firebox.
Can someone elaborate? Thanks Scott Milw 261 is equipped with a Standard MB stoker, which utilizes five steam jets to blow the coal over the grates. The coal is brought forward by a horizontal auger to a point just under the backhead. It is then shoved through an elbow up through the grate area to the jet block located just inside the firebox door. These stokers were great for retrofitting former hand bombers because you didn't have to modify the backhead, just the grates. It is a very dependable appliance and when set up properly, works very well. Ed Selinsky |
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| Author: | jd johnson [ Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | turbo generator on 261 |
Ed, Just wondering how the turbo generator is working on the 261. I had a little hand in the project by providing the turbo several years ago. My understanding is that the replacement was the exact model that was on the engine. Take Care, JD Johnosn, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian |
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| Author: | Ed Selinsky [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: turbo generator on 261 |
jd johnson wrote: Ed,
Just wondering how the turbo generator is working on the 261. I had a little hand in the project by providing the turbo several years ago. My understanding is that the replacement was the exact model that was on the engine. Take Care, JD Johnosn, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian The dynamo has provided dependable service since its installation many years ago. The only issue we had with it was that after about five years of use, we noticed an increase in the number of light bulbs burning out prematurely. A search for an explanation found that the dynamo voltage output had increased to 40 volts from the original 34 volt setting. The problem was solved with an adjustment of the governor on the dynamo, and an annual inspection of it shows that it has only needed a one volt adjustment since. We replaced the brushes on it about a year ago, and other than changing the oil, it has needed no other maintenance. We are very pleased with its performance. Ed Selinsky |
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| Author: | jd johnson [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: turbo generator on 261 |
Ed, Thanks for the update. I am glad that everything worked out alright. Give my regards to Steve Sandberg and the rest of the crew. JD Johnson, Morehead and North Fork Railroad Historian |
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