Railway Preservation News :: View topic - Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?

Mass production commenced [in 1934] with coach 4401. The interior design of this car and the 39 that followed was somewhat different, resulting in a seating capacity of 48 in the body of the car, 10 in the mens;s smoking room, and 4 in the ladi4es' smoking room compared with 40,9,5 respectively in the 4000 [a coach rebuilt heavyweight sleeper] and the 4400. The 4400 had lights above the aisle , an arrangement which was eliminated from subsequent cars. At the same time, dormitory cars for use on the Olympian also were constructed to the design. These cars contained a main room with 36 reclining seats, a smoking room with 20 reclining seats, and a section sleeping space for 16 dining-car crew members.*

*Throughout the careers of the Hiawathas, the Milwaukee built additional head-end, dormitory, dining and parlor cars to streamline design. These never saw Hiawatha service and consequently are not a part of this narrative.

Author:	elauterbach [ Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
Just wondering if there are any preserved passenger cars from the 1935 Hiawatha trains? Or for that matter, what Hiawatha cars from the Milwaukee Road are preserved. Thanks, Eric

Author:	Bob Kutella [ Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
There are several of the homebuilt rib side passenger cars which have survived, if this qualifies for inclusion in your answer. At IRM we have an all baggage, perhaps the number was 1307, and it is fully restored. But perhaps that was built later than the era you ask. In 1935 that would likely have been all heavyweight cars, although that was also the dawn of the lightweights. For heavyweight cars, IRM still has the Camp Grant, nee Terre Haute, slated to go to another museum. I guess I am just not familiar enough with 1935 MILW consists. Bob Kutella

Author:	fmilhaupt [ Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
While I don't know of any of the home-built '35 set's streamlined cars being preserved, two coaches from the 1948 set are in use onthe Little River Railroad out of Coldwater, Michigan.

Author:	buzz_morris [ Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
I don’t know if being built for The Olympian qualifies as Hiawatha service but you can buy the Alaska for $50,000 OBO at… http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/alaska.htm Another heavyweight Milwaukee car for sale at that site is the Indiana Like the Harlowtown-Camp Grant-Terre Haute-X-830 Milwaukee rebuilt this car several times so “preserved” is also relative. One of Camp Grants sister solariums was the Camp Randal-Coast (retired as work car X-420) is rumored to be on a ranch in Montana. As Camp Grant is in very poor condition the other museum Bob mentioned may abandon it, so unless someone removes it from the IRMs property within a year or so it may be scrapped.

Author:	Don C. [ Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
Friends of the 261 own and operate four cars that were built for Hiawatha service. Tool car/baggage car "Earling" was built as a Beaver Tail in 1938 and converted to a storage mail car in 1959. "Cedar Rapids" was built as one of the four Skytops in 1948 for Twin Cities Hi service. Super Dome 53 was built in 1952 by P-S for Olympian / Twin Cities Hiawatha service. 8-6-4 sleeper "Minnesota River" (now modified to an 8-5-4 with the replacement of a roomette with a shower) was built by P-S in 1954 for Pioneer Limited service but also saw service on the Olympian. Only "Earling" is not Amtrak certified and will probably never receive the necessary upgrades to operate in Amtrak service. Many other Hiawatha coaches exist as do several cars which went to Kansas City to the Union Station Railroad museum that were in the Henry Castro restaurant/bar complex in Milwaukee. Diner/lounge #170, 8-6-4 sleeper "Jefferson River" and RPO 2159 are three of the cars. According to Jim Scribbins' "Hiawatha Story", of this group, only #170 was purpose-built for "Hi" service. As mentioned, Ozark Mountain Railcar has several former Milwaukee Road cars for sale on their website. Fremont and Elkhorn Valley also has Milwaukee Road cars in service including two coaches which FO 261 leased for a couple of excursion seasons. Don C.

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Author:	Bob Kutella [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Camp Grant Update
The Camp Grant at IRM may be going to the new CAMP GRANT MUSEUM outside of Rockford IL. They have approved the acquisition (for them) but a lot of details to be worked out with moving it. So it looks like it will be saved for now, although its future is not guaranteed, YET. Bob Kutella

Author:	Aarne H. Frobom [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:28 am ]
Post subject:	1935 Hiawatha cars
Two of the original Hiawatha coaches survived until about 1972 as excursion coaches owned by the Michigan Railroad Club at Detroit, still lettered for Chicago Great Western. I last saw these at what looked to have been an aborted tourist-line scheme at Jonesville, Michigan around 1977, but they had been burned. I believe there was a 1935 Hiawatha lounge car derelict at Janesville, Wisconsin, around 1985, but that car was very crusty and I doubt it survived, either.

Author:	Gary Gray [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 1935 Hiawatha cars
http://www.virginia.org/frame/descripti ... age=1&Dir= The owner of this Inn is the wife of the equipment mover mentioned in the "Roanoke Srap Yard" thread

Author:	Boyd Owens [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
For sale by Rail Merchants International (http://www.railmerchants.net/index.htm): Milwaukee-Hiawatha Dorm Coach: http://www.railmerchants.net/passenger/hiawatha.html Milwaukee Road Coach: http://www.railmerchants.net/passenger/purple2.html

Author:	Brian Norden [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preserved 1935 Hiawtha Cars?
The coach-dorm is most likely a car built in 1934 by the Milwaukee Road for use on the Olympian, its Chicago-Seattle train. To the true officiando this was not a "Hiawatha car" as it did not run on any of the Hiawatha trains In Jim Scribbbins' The Hiawatha Story (1970 edition) p 13 he writes: Quote: Mass production commenced [in 1934] with coach 4401. The interior design of this car and the 39 that followed was somewhat different, resulting in a seating capacity of 48 in the body of the car, 10 in the mens;s smoking room, and 4 in the ladi4es' smoking room compared with 40,9,5 respectively in the 4000 [a coach rebuilt heavyweight sleeper] and the 4400. The 4400 had lights above the aisle , an arrangement which was eliminated from subsequent cars. At the same time, dormitory cars for use on the Olympian also were constructed to the design. These cars contained a main room with 36 reclining seats, a smoking room with 20 reclining seats, and a section sleeping space for 16 dining-car crew members.* *Throughout the careers of the Hiawathas, the Milwaukee built additional head-end, dormitory, dining and parlor cars to streamline design. These never saw Hiawatha service and consequently are not a part of this narrative.

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