Attractions that close for the winter (or, in the Desert Southwest, the summer heat!) do not do so in a vacuum or without warning.

I have to build the rest of my leisure and chore planning around the operational schedules of shops, libraries, office hours, rush hours, museums, park gates, etc. How would Steamtown closing in the winter be any different?

Because FB has become enough of a %(*+#%@*#! "time suck" for me even just following what I'm forced to for the course of business that I don't join any FB page anymore unless I absolutely HAVE to.

That's on par with saying "If you're a serious rail preservationist, where is your presence in the RyPN Interchange forum?"

"I didn't say everything you think I said, but didn't make myself clear due"

No doubt. I've spent the last couple days being sick, so my cognition is probably misfiring on cylinders 3 and 6.

Check out Hayek (1974 Nobel Winner) and Coase (1991 Nobel Winner)


Hayek:


http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ ... cture.html

The money phrase:

It seems to me that this failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences - an attempt which in our field may lead to outright error. It is an approach which has come to be described as the "scientistic" attitude - an attitude which, as I defined it some thirty years ago, "is decidedly unscientific in the true sense of the word, since it involves a mechanical and uncritical application of habits of thought to fields different from those in which they have been formed." I want today to begin by explaining how some of the gravest errors of recent economic policy are a direct consequence of this scientistic error.

Also google "the curious task of economics".

Coase:

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/ ... cture.html


The money phrase:


This neglect of other aspects of the system has been made easier by another feature of modern economic theory - the growing abstraction of the analysis, which does not seem to call for a detailed knowledge of the actual economic system or, at any rate, has managed to proceed without it. Holmstrom and Tirole, writing on The Theory of the Firm in the recently published Handbook of Industrial Organization, conclude at the end of their article of 63 pages that "the evidence/theory ratio... is currently very low in this field"3. Peltzman has written a scathing review of the Handbook in which he points out how much of the discussion in it is theory without any empirical basis. What is studied is a system which lives in the minds of economists but not on earth. I have called the result "blackboard economics".


Keynes I find to be a "defunct economist" for "practical men".

I'm veering really off topic here.........time for another snort of Dayquil. It's not remotely like a good IPA, or even a Cabernet, but it's bold without being pretentious.

To the poster that made this PM suggestion:

"That activity is a PROFESSIONAL quality guest speakers program".

First, thank you for a CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion.

That is something that is under consideration (by me) as an activity to be sponsored by the friends group, as all directors are under a mandate to supply ten activity suggestions for "distillation", by the next meeting.

As I recall, Preston Cook inhabits this board. Another person who would be great is Dr. Albert Churella, author of the magnum opus "From Steam to Diesel.." (first time I ever plunked down 150 bucks for a book). There's a couple others I can't think of in my viral, anesthetic addled state.

Post Script:

Oh what the heck is wrong with me.. Mr. Moorman, as the prime mover of NS sponsorship and participation in things like 21st Century Steam, the OCS F-units and the Heritage Units. Another guest, graphic artist Andrew Fletcher...


Perhaps one or all will have an opportunity to speak, or should I say we will have the opportunity to hear.

"Because FB has become enough of a %(*+#%@*#! "time suck" for me even just following what I'm forced to for the course of business that I don't join any FB page anymore unless I absolutely HAVE to."

Our footprint is small, actually hurting for something to say until next directors meeting.

[quote="superheater:

It seems to me that this failure of the economists to guide policy more successfully is closely connected with their propensity to imitate as closely as possible the procedures of the brilliantly successful physical sciences - an attempt which in our field may lead to outright error. It is an approach which has come to be described as the "scientistic" attitude - an attitude which, as I defined it some thirty years ago, "is decidedly unscientific in the true sense of the word, since it involves a mechanical and uncritical application of habits of thought to fields different from those in which they have been formed." I want today to begin by explaining how some of the gravest errors of recent economic policy are a direct consequence of this scientistic error.[/quote]

Yes! Thank you. Said far better than I could express it. Feel better soon.

Ross, I disagree with your "common sense" position.

The Colorado Railroad Museum (CRRM) is a well-run, non-government enterprise that is open 9 to 5, 362 days a year. They close only on Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve and New Years Eve) and they only operate steam a few times a year.

I also don't think the public would accept a National Park being open only when visitation is projected to be high.

Hate to break it to you but that happens all the time.

Weir Farm which is the only NPS site in CT is open seasonally from May-October.

There's also versions of that in Philadelphia post sequester where spots like the Edgar Allen Poe house went from being open five days a week to three along with the Thaddeus Kosciuszko site being open three days a week year round to two days a week only in the summer or the Germantown White House site which is now only open a few days a year in the summer.

There are others but the point is that there are plenty of NPS sites which are only open when visitation is expected to be higher and no stink is kicked up.

Closing Steamtown seasonally or only being open on weekends for the winter would actually make a ton of sense and it would fit in with plenty of other sites which the NPS has scheduled that way for years.

The model of other National Parks, and indeed also state-run rail museums, etc.:

You are OPEN every day the budget allows--I can drive through the Painted Desert unmolested if I've taken the lengthy trouble. But you OFFER more on the days that records show have maximum visitation--the docent/ranger-led tours, open cabs/cars/buildings, the train ride, living-history group, archaeology dig, Diesel Days, whatever.

Heck, if you're really astute, you offer tiered admission rates--cheap rates for skeletal crews, regular rates for weekends, prime rates for special events. And you promote the heck out of special events so few are caught unawares.

Now, yes, what I've just suggested is completely at odds with the way the NPS is typically viewed by many: "It's America's; I should be able to go in for free!" But we're a generation deep into "entry fees," and most Americans have become acclimated to the concept. No one expects to go to the Grand Canyon for free unless they've "bought" the annual pass of one kind or another, or are almost completely deluded. (Whereas I've been to "parks" where one should have to be paid to go there.)

If someone expects the full interpretive visit of a National Park on a random Tuesday in November or March without substantial advance arrangements (such as two busloads of seniors/schoolkids booked in advance), that's not the NPS's problem. That's the visitor's problem.

On the other hand, if Steamtown were closed to the public from, say, Dec. 30 through April 1, the shop crew could get a whole lot of work done without any interruptions.

But as it is, there are no train rides in that time (unless the yard shuttle runs in March, I don't honestly remember) - so what "interruptions" would occur? The maybe once per day shop tour? That would pretty much be it...

"Antagonizing forum members will not be condoned here. "

co614 wrote:

Common sense tells you that if it were run as a private sector enterprise ( vs. essentially a jobs corp.) it would be operated in a much different manner ( closed in winter when visitation declines to near zero, active steam in operation on ALL days the place is open, multiple special events tied to active steam (( North Pole Express, Santa Trains, Day Out with Thomas, etc.,etc.)), and other community uses of the unique physical plant.

Apart from that statement being completely antagonistic and derogatory, the idea of Winter time closure is a red herring for the following reasons.

1.) There is already a partial closure of Steamtown during the winter months. Railroad operations are suspended (except for annual training), hours are reduced, staff is placed on furlough. Those people that work there, they are my friends, I'd like to see NO FURLOUGHS if possible.

2.) Private sector enterprises don't serve their customers by shutting down. Instead, they look for ways to draw customers in at times when they otherwise would not be there. That's why McDonald's began offering breakfast many years ago, because fixed assets or a physical plant that remains idle still imposes opportunity costs. It took years, but even Taco Bell is now offering breakfast. On the flip side, Dunkin Donuts now offers lunch fare and is currently having a DD Perks promotion where you get bonus points for purchases made in the PM.

Likewise, nearby Montage Mountain, which was originally "just" a ski area, offers a water park and other events and attractions to bring in guests long after early March when the ski season (Dec to March in "good" years) is done.

Real private sector enterprises know closure is the sign of a stagnant and unimaginative management that isn't maximizing shareholder value.

3.) Other Railroad Museums do not shut down.

http://www.borail.org/January.aspx

http://www.borail.org/february.aspx

OK, the B&O does shut down for a week.

http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/visitors/calendar.shtml

Instead, they are seeking to turn the turnstyles. Scranton winters are worse than Strasburg's or Baltimore's to be sure, but Scranton isn't Siberia, and its not like Strasburg's plows are merely decorations.

4.) Steamtown has a fantastic asset in its theater. It has been used in the past for a wintertime lecture series, and is warm and cozy in the winter. One of my ten required proposals is for an event that could be delivered in the theater, gaining "off-season" revenue, and one of my others was coincidentally sent to me by PM.

5.) Whether or not there is a "closure", buildings need to be heated and maintained. Many expenses are fixed, and don't care whether you have 1000 visitors a day or not a one. You might as well try to get some revenue to offset those fixed expenses.

In other words "common sense" is the same here as it is among politicians, that is something that somebody really, really wants, but knows will not survive informed scrutiny. Some folks might think it's an adjective that provides for a summary dismissal of any and all careful examination, but for me, "common sense" means "target acquired".

"The Purpose of a Business is to Create a Customer"

- Peter Drucker, "The Practice of Management"

To date I have resisted getting involved in the social media world although I'm guessing that eventually I'll need to join Facebook or Twitter or one of the others as that's where the new world gathers.

Yes, as a died in the wool steam lover I have been greatly disappointed in how Steamtown has turned out to date. I fully realized when it was created in the early 90's by Cong. McDade that its primary purpose was to create federally funded jobs for a very depressed community and a defunct collection of steam era railroad equipment and a once important steam era service facility were convenient vehicles available to make it happen.

Even realizing this reality it is hard to accept that having now spent well over $ 150 million taxpayer dollars the place can't even keep one mainline type steam locomotive in active service.

However it is what it is and perhaps the new Friends group can find ways to improve things and as I've said let's give it a try and see where it goes.

Seems to me that just about any change will be for the better or if you prefer " whats to lose".

IMHO- Ross Rowland

Ross,

I'd highly suggest and recommend joining Facebook, even if not to socialize with others, but it's a fantastic place to get updates on steam restorations, railroad operations - as it's a powerful tool to reach out to the newer generation of railfans and railroaders. You'll see that many of the steam preservation "bigwigs" have accounts, or at least pages that promote their projects, and some update with frequency.

In other words, the train is about to finish boarding - are you on? It's time to go. "All Aboard!!!"

Let it be noted that the examples above of museums (B&O Museum and RRMPA) that do not shut down in winter offer little or no actual operating trains. Even Strasburg Rail Road is closed in January and February, and most if not all tourist railroads in the northern third of the country shut down for the winter months. Some museums may be open on a very limited basis during the winter. Maine's WW&F, for example, is open on Saturdays year round, but there is no scheduled train operation from the end of December through April.